IDB

this is pretty interesting. I saw someone posted Markipliers video, but what do you guys think?

Kinda off topic, not sure where else to pose this question relating to the current drama...

Honest question relating to this "Youtube is changing" drama that's been sweeping through the community lately.
Do you think it's realistic to start a channel with the intention of attempts at making it a career anymore? Or even a channel with a hope of popularity? Or is trying to start from the ground up right now basically like paddling a boat up to a sinking ship? (If one were to take into account starting a channel with an already existing small fan base)

I have a friend with a channel that just passed 120K subscribers and I will be guest hosting with him on it next weekend. I have also been working with a friend on a first video for a new channel hoping to launch in the next month or two.
I am not new to the inner workings of internet communities and creating internet identities and brands, but other than simply making videos for the fun of it, do you think this is a futile venture?

cora808 wrote:Kinda off topic, not sure where else to pose this question relating to the current drama...

Honest question relating to this "Youtube is changing" drama that's been sweeping through the community lately.
Do you think it's realistic to start a channel with the intention of attempts at making it a career anymore? Or even a channel with a hope of popularity? Or is trying to start from the ground up right now basically like paddling a boat up to a sinking ship? (If one were to take into account starting a channel with an already existing small fan base)

I have a friend with a channel that just passed 120K subscribers and I will be guest hosting with him on it next weekend. I have also been working with a friend on a first video for a new channel hoping to launch in the next month or two.
I am not new to the inner workings of internet communities and creating internet identities and brands, but other than simply making videos for the fun of it, do you think this is a futile venture?

That's really cool congrats to your friend and good luck to you!

I wouldn't say it's futile. Certainly there is a lot of youtube drama and it unfortunately attracts a lot of attention. However, your channel on youtube is what you make of it and if you keep it drama free then it will be drama free. Youtube still has many genuinely honest and interesting creators and I don't see it going anywhere time soon. In my opinion, a lot of Youtube's changes come with growing to as large as it is now and that is inevitable.

I would say it's definitely still possible to get a decent sized audience on youtube, especially if you get a bit of a push in the beginning.
We know that internet fame comes and goes very fast. All the people who are "big" now will be replaced at some point. Why not by you? If your content happens to resonate with a lot of people or you catch a trend at the right time, there's nothing stopping you.
But i'd also say the chance of growing an audience big enough to make a living is quite small. It's there, but small.

(I lowkey want you to get big on youtube, but keep your anonymous account here and give us all the insider infos )

wtfamidoinghere wrote:I would say it's definitely still possible to get a decent sized audience on youtube, especially if you get a bit of a push in the beginning.
We know that internet fame comes and goes very fast. All the people who are "big" now will be replaced at some point. Why not by you? If your content happens to resonate with a lot of people or you catch a trend at the right time, there's nothing stopping you.
But i'd also say the chance of growing an audience big enough to make a living is quite small. It's there, but small.

(I lowkey want you to get big on youtube, but keep your anonymous account here and give us all the insider infos )

My friend with the 120K subscribers is already able to focus on doing YT full-time, so I look forward to shooting with him so I can pick his brain about the details.

And I promise you, if I ever make it as a YTer, I will keep my anonymous account and feed all you delightful birdies little worms of info.

And I promise you, if I ever make it as a YTer, I will keep my anonymous account and feed all you delightful birdies little worms of info.

I'm looking forward to it. Obviously, with the influx of people trying to make it on YouTube it is harder than it has ever been before, but at the same thing you have so many examples of what works and what doesn't, and how to make a channel successful.
Also, this is completely unrelated, and one day I'm going to post an essay-length rant on here one day about how much I hate queerbaiting on YouTube, but for now I'm just going to post how much stuff like this pisses me off.



The title of this is #INTHECLOSET WITH MARCUS BUTLER

Look, I know that Jim Chapman is not the only one who does this, pretty much every YouTuber has been guilty of queerbait-y clickbait at some point, but I am 500 percent done with it. Maybe I am overreacting, but he has to realize how a title like that would be perceived. It reminds me of that stupid video Luke Cutforth put up called 'Coming Out' that was about him revealing his relationship with Emma Blackery that no one actually cared about.

Unrelated to the inthecloset thing- though yes that's untasteful- i kind of forgive Jim because he's unbelievably boring and probably just thought it sounded catchy.

But I'm a fan of Dodie, and I just rewatched this song, and I swear it makes me want to cry. I seriously recommend to all of you, and basically the rest of her original songs- she's really talented!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RiJeswrEbw

bedhead91 wrote:The title of this is #INTHECLOSET WITH MARCUS BUTLER

Look, I know that Jim Chapman is not the only one who does this, pretty much every YouTuber has been guilty of queerbait-y clickbait at some point, but I am 500 percent done with it. Maybe I am overreacting, but he has to realize how a title like that would be perceived. It reminds me of that stupid video Luke Cutforth put up called 'Coming Out' that was about him revealing his relationship with Emma Blackery that no one actually cared about.

Things like this leave such a nasty taste in my mouth. Are people calling him out or letting him get away with it? Both him and Luke.

spider wrote:

bedhead91 wrote:The title of this is #INTHECLOSET WITH MARCUS BUTLER

Look, I know that Jim Chapman is not the only one who does this, pretty much every YouTuber has been guilty of queerbait-y clickbait at some point, but I am 500 percent done with it. Maybe I am overreacting, but he has to realize how a title like that would be perceived. It reminds me of that stupid video Luke Cutforth put up called 'Coming Out' that was about him revealing his relationship with Emma Blackery that no one actually cared about.

Things like this leave such a nasty taste in my mouth. Are people calling him out or letting him get away with it? Both him and Luke.

I haven't seen anything in the comments about Jim's bad video name choice, it's all just full of suggestions of people to feature next.. Imo it's a shame he picked the title he did, because it was actually a pretty decent video and could make for an interesting series if he got more youtubers to share their wardrobes..
I would love it if he got D&P to be on it but I think that's pretty unlikely

spider wrote:

bedhead91 wrote:The title of this is #INTHECLOSET WITH MARCUS BUTLER

Look, I know that Jim Chapman is not the only one who does this, pretty much every YouTuber has been guilty of queerbait-y clickbait at some point, but I am 500 percent done with it. Maybe I am overreacting, but he has to realize how a title like that would be perceived. It reminds me of that stupid video Luke Cutforth put up called 'Coming Out' that was about him revealing his relationship with Emma Blackery that no one actually cared about.

Things like this leave such a nasty taste in my mouth. Are people calling him out or letting him get away with it? Both him and Luke.

People did call Luke out for it, and thankfully he did change the title of the video. However, it boggles the mind that he thought that was a good idea for a title in the first place. The worst offenders of this are definitely the Gleamers...I remember once Joe Sugg put a thumbnail of him and Caspar kissing in a video, and then went on to complain in the video how creepy he thought it was that fangirls shipped them together. I mean ....rhymingwithoranges did a good video on this, which has gotten a depressing amount of hate, judging from the comments.

Dan and Phil used to queerbait, too, before they started no homoing out of everything, and changing queerbaiting titles to more innocuous ones (like changing "HOT SEXY PHANTASTIC ACTION" to "Some bloopers from Phil is not on fire 4"). I'm glad they did that, tbh. Even if it was for the wrong reasons, at least they avoid queerbaiting.

(It was queerbaiting even if they are in a relationship, because those videos didn't have any queer content. I would also say that their current videos aren't as queerbaity, because they are being honest, mostly, even if it's exaggeration, and humans are not fictional characters).

bluebox-away wrote:I would love it if he got D&P to be on it but I think that's pretty unlikely

They wouldn't go near something with that title with a 10 ft. pole.

bedhead91 wrote:People did call Luke out for it, and thankfully he did change the title of the video. However, it boggles the mind that he thought that was a good idea for a title in the first place. The worst offenders of this are definitely the Gleamers...I remember once Joe Sugg put a thumbnail of him and Caspar kissing in a video, and then went on to complain in the video how creepy he thought it was that fangirls shipped them together. I mean ....rhymingwithoranges did a good video on this, which has gotten a depressing amount of hate, judging from the comments.

Straight people sometimes. Don't understand the logic.

jhamba wrote:Dan and Phil used to queerbait, too, before they started no homoing out of everything, and changing queerbaiting titles to more innocuous ones (like changing "HOT SEXY PHANTASTIC ACTION" to "Some bloopers from Phil is not on fire 4"). I'm glad they did that, tbh. Even if it was for the wrong reasons, at least they avoid queerbaiting.

(It was queerbaiting even if they are in a relationship, because those videos didn't have any queer content. I would also say that their current videos aren't as queerbaity, because they are being honest, mostly, even if it's exaggeration, and humans are not fictional characters).

This is probably going to sound really defense squad but I don't hold it against . It was a different time when they were making queerbait titles. Dan used to have a thumbnail of random women kissing or something which he wouldn't do now. Luke and the Gleamers are doing the same thing now when people are a lot more aware of how it's wrong.

Also since I think they're in a relationship I don't care if they were queerbaiting. Straight people do it so non straight people more than have the right. That's only my opinion as a gay person. Not everyone is going to agree or has to. If they're not in a relationship somehow then that changes of course.

spider wrote:

jhamba wrote:Dan and Phil used to queerbait, too, before they started no homoing out of everything, and changing queerbaiting titles to more innocuous ones (like changing "HOT SEXY PHANTASTIC ACTION" to "Some bloopers from Phil is not on fire 4"). I'm glad they did that, tbh. Even if it was for the wrong reasons, at least they avoid queerbaiting.

(It was queerbaiting even if they are in a relationship, because those videos didn't have any queer content. I would also say that their current videos aren't as queerbaity, because they are being honest, mostly, even if it's exaggeration, and humans are not fictional characters).

This is probably going to sound really defense squad but I don't hold it against . It was a different time when they were making queerbait titles. Dan used to have a thumbnail of random women kissing or something which he wouldn't do now. Luke and the Gleamers are doing the same thing now when people are a lot more aware of how it's wrong.

Also since I think they're in a relationship I don't care if they were queerbaiting. Straight people do it so non straight people more than have the right. That's only my opinion as a gay person. Not everyone is going to agree or has to. If they're not in a relationship somehow then that changes of course.

It was definitely a different time. I don't hold it against them, either, I just think it's important to see them without idealizing everything they do.

And, about the queerbaiting, I think there's different kinds of queerbaiting. Deppy definitely have more of a right to queerbait than straight people, but I don't think queerbaity titles are good, for anyone.

And, I think some forms of queer references are fine, if they are actually queer (which I think they are), but I think there should be a line, and blatant queerbaiting is more of a gray area than I am comfortable with.

I think, as real people, they have a right to do specific things that are not okay in a fictional show, like make subtle references to being bisexual (like, Dean Winchester in supernatural, Sherlock in Sherlock {the bbc version}, or even Captain Kirk in star trek, which I'm more forgiving of, bc that was a different time, and star trek more than made up for it by being super progressive in other ways and tbf, the implication itself was very bold at that point of time). That isn't queerbaiting, as it would be in a show, but I don't like the blatantly queerbaiting stuff, like titles that are misleading, even if it does come from actual bi people.

jhamba wrote:Dan and Phil used to queerbait, too, before they started no homoing out of everything, and changing queerbaiting titles to more innocuous ones (like changing "HOT SEXY PHANTASTIC ACTION" to "Some bloopers from Phil is not on fire 4"). I'm glad they did that, tbh. Even if it was for the wrong reasons, at least they avoid queerbaiting.

(It was queerbaiting even if they are in a relationship, because those videos didn't have any queer content. I would also say that their current videos aren't as queerbaity, because they are being honest, mostly, even if it's exaggeration, and humans are not fictional characters).

I remember that, I'm glad that they are more self-aware now. I honestly don't think how they interact with each other can be classified as queerbaiting...unless you count their natural chemistry as queerbaiting. If anything, I say they probably downplay how touchy they actually are with each other, judging by Dan's awkward look at the camera every time Phil so much as gives him a shoulder pat. It can't be helped that every time they touch each other or look at each other a little too long that this will be interpreted as romantic interaction. Also, I wouldn't be offended by them milking it a bit (if that's what they are doing,) because they are completely okay with fanfiction and shipping, and don't act repulsed by the idea that people think that they are together. (Not anymore, anyway. 2012 Dan, obviously, was a very different person.)
With all the hints that Dan has been giving at bisexuality lately, I would be very upset if he actually is straight and would definitely unstan.
I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this, though.

bedhead91 wrote:With all the hints that Dan has been giving at bisexuality lately, I would be very upset if he actually is straight and would definitely unstan.
I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this, though.

If he were straight, I'd absolutely unstan. No question about it. The stuff from 2012 is unacceptable to me if it came from a straight person, not to mention the actually blatant queerbaiting. A lot of my respect for them and justification of their past hinges on them being bisexual. If that isn't there, I would lose all the respect I have for them, and just be disgusted with their homophobia

jhamba wrote:It was definitely a different time. I don't hold it against them, either, I just think it's important to see them without idealizing everything they do.

Definitely important to keep perspective. You probably weren't talking about me specifically but unstanning was a real possibility when I read accusations of queerbaiting at the time of the bour announcement on the site that shall not be named. Mostly knee jerk reactions to them 'selling out' and queerbaiting for the brand but it was shocking after a lot of generally positive threads. Positive for that website anyway. It was a sudden realization that Deppy might not be perfect and blindly stanning is never good.

jhamba wrote:

bedhead91 wrote:With all the hints that Dan has been giving at bisexuality lately, I would be very upset if he actually is straight and would definitely unstan.
I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this, though.

If he were straight, I'd absolutely unstan. No question about it. The stuff from 2012 is unacceptable to me if it came from a straight person, not to mention the actually blatant queerbaiting. A lot of my respect for them hinges on them being bisexual. If that isn't there, I would lose all the respect I have for them, and just be disgusted with their homophobia

Agree with all of this but with the small change of 'not heterosexual' instead of 'bisexual' since they might identify with a different label.

jhamba wrote:

bedhead91 wrote:With all the hints that Dan has been giving at bisexuality lately, I would be very upset if he actually is straight and would definitely unstan.
I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this, though.

If he were straight, I'd absolutely unstan. No question about it. The stuff from 2012 is unacceptable to me if it came from a straight person, not to mention the actually blatant queerbaiting. A lot of my respect for them and justification of their past hinges on them being bisexual. If that isn't there, I would lose all the respect I have for them, and just be disgusted with their homophobia

I really hope that it doesn't actually come down to this. Dan 'gender rolls are the worst kind of bread' Howell seems to be so much more aware of social justice issues nowadays, and it seems like he's trying harder than ever not to problematic. I can't imagine that he would be hinting at male attraction just to tease his subscribers. That's why I'm hoping all this hinting will lead up to coming out at some point....maybe not soon, but eventually. He has to realize how his current behavior will come across if he avoids the elephant in the room forever. Would unstan Phil as well tbh, because even though Phil has been more tight-lipped about his sexuality, he still very much played a part in creating Voldy and the early 2009 flirting.

bluebox-away wrote:

spider wrote:

bedhead91 wrote:The title of this is #INTHECLOSET WITH MARCUS BUTLER

Look, I know that Jim Chapman is not the only one who does this, pretty much every YouTuber has been guilty of queerbait-y clickbait at some point, but I am 500 percent done with it. Maybe I am overreacting, but he has to realize how a title like that would be perceived. It reminds me of that stupid video Luke Cutforth put up called 'Coming Out' that was about him revealing his relationship with Emma Blackery that no one actually cared about.

Things like this leave such a nasty taste in my mouth. Are people calling him out or letting him get away with it? Both him and Luke.

I haven't seen anything in the comments about Jim's bad video name choice, it's all just full of suggestions of people to feature next.. Imo it's a shame he picked the title he did, because it was actually a pretty decent video and could make for an interesting series if he got more youtubers to share their wardrobes..
I would love it if he got D&P to be on it but I think that's pretty unlikely

It is a VERY nice video series idea! i'm so conflicted, hopefully someone will call him out eventually or he'll realize and tweak the title..??

But the video is so lovely. It's so nice to see in sight into the style of youtube boys who care about what they wear and how they present themselves. I'd love to see Dan wow them with his impressive closet of really cool statement designer items (those trousers with the flap maaaan ) but I don't see how Jim would be interested in Phil's closet that looks like a corner of your local Topman (though he seems to be ok with Marcus' almost exclusively All Saints wardrobe).

...but eah, hope he changes the name

it's still funny to me too how nobody cared about the lemma announcement video besides the terrible execution

mintsans wrote:it's still funny to me too how nobody cared about the lemma announcement video besides the terrible execution

Because they're irrelevant and anything good about them is far outweighed by their cringiness.

This is so satisfying: I mean he prob should have ignored him since attention is what Onision wants, but still

Oh ew things have taken a turn: But does stating facts count as drama though?

What the hell is up with onisions obsession with Dan.

Baiting the phandom for attention. Plain and simple.

The last month.. especially the last week...

I have started to slowly love Pewds more and more as a person .

And another example of Pewds being a decent human being