IDB

Catallena wrote:I don't get why the phandom thinks Dan looks feminine. He doesn't really have an androgynous look to him at all imo. Maybe pre-2013 Dan, but that because he basically still a teenager and teens just look different from grown men.

btw it's not just dresses and skirts, another trend in the smut corner of the phandom is Dan in lingerie... Sad times for me, men in lingerie don't get me going at all.

It's not that he looks feminine, it's that he has expressed liking traditionally "femenine" clothes once or twice before, clothes have no gender and tbh I think he'd look cute but I agree it's bizarre how much the phanom wants to force him into doing stuff just for the sake of breaking gender roles

I don't see anything bad in drawing Dan with dresses. Is not like they are pressing him to wear them, is only a new popular fan art AU.
Dan tweet this And a lot of people notice that the japanese words means "Princess of marble"
So phanter draw this

phantheraglama wrote:
//Princess Marble hides behind block of marbles alot to avoid socializing.//

Highly inspired by the highly aesthetic pic that these two have taken recently.

and other artist decides they like the AU and it started trending

anon in phantheraglama tumblr wrote:Anonymous:
man if i was dan i'd kill myself because all his fans are retarded 12 y/ olds who think is okay to drawn him in dresses and shit

I find it funny, and I don't think they are projecting anything on Dan. Or maybe I follow the correct tumblr blogs

Catallena wrote:As long as it's not hurting anybody I don't care though, so it's too bad the phandom is taking it too far with their nail polish obsession. They want Dan to break gender roles so badly they don't even care about his personal preferences or feelings. Ironically that's the opposite of how progressive those girls are trying to be

I don't really mind any of the fanwork trends (I still read and love Soulmate AU fics) but yeah people who actually pressure

I agree with this. It's absolutely fine to draw these things and to imagine Dan doing/wearing them, but there should be no pressuring involved, because that isn't cool. And sadly there are some people who do pressure and that annoys me. Luckily those people are far and few between.

...what the fuck? i stay away from this place for a long while after the biphopia statements and i wasn't in a good mental state then (maybe still) and i came back to this...

(sorry in advance if i come across as rude but i just really need to let this out)

This recent trend come after an artist being inspired by DAN HIMSELF, saying 'Marble of Princess' in Japanese in his tweet, drew dan as a marble princess. And THEN an asshole anon come and insult that drawing saying that this artist is a retar*ed 12 year old girl for drawing dan, who are a boy, in a dress and that dan would kill himself if he knew. SO as solidarity (which i actually admire) between phandom's artists and a fuck you to that anon, people start drawing dan (actually phil too) in a dress and it become a trend. Because hey you know what, boys can wear dress if they want, and nobody should shamed them for that. I'm sure and hope there are boys who feel comforted seeing that.

It's just a knee jerk reaction of seeing that insulting anon, that takes off to something else (trend) because of its popularity. And nobody was hurt in the process by drawing that? It could potentially help other people?

While i'm also not exactly comfortable with people assigning everything feminine with Dan every time (as if he's 'the girl in the relationship') and i really don't want people forcing things on Dan and Phil, like nail polish and stuff, i think they'd back off if doesn't wear it/say they're not comfortable/etc, and i certainly think people won't suddenly demand them to wear a dress because of this. edit: i feel like if people seeing this trend as 'fans now will force dan and phil to wear dress ugh thats how far theyd take their breaking gender roles mind' it says something? i just don't know what.

And honestly, give those artists a break.

i'd probably regret this post later, but whatever, i need to get off internet now

it's definitely not a new trend since that 1 anon. that art was just a part of a growing trend, the anon was a response to it. there's nothing wrong with a boy in a dress, this is coming from someone who's a boy about 70% of the time and wears dresses about 40% of the time. it's just the way it's done, and the reasons that are done, that are creepy. it's sexualised or comedic or made into a political statement with no basis. besides that, putting him in a dress is often then joined with backwards, misogynistic stereotypes, because he's wearing girl clothes and girls do this omg so cute!!!
like boys in dresses? support boys who wear dresses, draw boys who wear dresses, because you can't use dan as a statement when he hasn't done anything. i do think he's open to the idea, i think he's made that suggestion enough, but he doesn't wear that right now so making him a symbol for genderless clothing is... odd. it just comes from another weird place of fetishisation and gendered expectations and it makes me, Boy In The Dress, a bit uncomfortable

jaej wrote:it's definitely not a new trend since that 1 anon. that art was just a part of a growing trend, the anon was a response to it. there's nothing wrong with a boy in a dress, this is coming from someone who's a boy about 70% of the time and wears dresses about 40% of the time. it's just the way it's done, and the reasons that are done, that are creepy. it's sexualised or comedic or made into a political statement with no basis. besides that, putting him in a dress is often then joined with backwards, misogynistic stereotypes, because he's wearing girl clothes and girls do this omg so cute!!!
like boys in dresses? support boys who wear dresses, draw boys who wear dresses, because you can't use dan as a statement when he hasn't done anything. i do think he's open to the idea, i think he's made that suggestion enough, but he doesn't wear that right now so making him a symbol for genderless clothing is... odd. it just comes from another weird place of fetishisation and gendered expectations and it makes me, Boy In The Dress, a bit uncomfortable

I do get what you mean jaej, in general the way that male queerness and gender non-conformity is fetishsized in fandoms makes me just a bit uncomfortable. That is probably a topic for a different thread, though. However, I don't think this particular instance really falls in that category. It's kind of funny and also a ''fuck you'' to that anon who actually thinks Dan would care that much. He's seen NSFW bondage fanart of him and Phil in his tags before, he's hardly going to bat an eye at seeing drawings of him a dress.

Eeeeeehhh... I'm not a fan, same uncomfortableness level as RPF, but I don't have an issue with it, as long as nobody is tagging them in it directly, and so long as it stays online. Or until Dan says "stop."

anon in phantheraglama tumblr wrote:

Now THAT, however, is fucking hilarious! (minus the dress, it's how I picture Dan responding to his alarm going off in the morning.)

Filming something with a professional green screen..? He looks great, I wonder what it's for

bluebox-away wrote:Filming something with green screen..?

Looks like. (Or a photoshoot?) No rest for the wicked, eh?

(don't tell him, but his foot's disappeared...!)

bluebox-away wrote:Filming something with a professional green screen..? He looks great, I wonder what it's for

This picture fills me with determination.
Can't wait to find out what this is for, but I'm excited about the green screen.

I personally believe that if people want to draw Dan in a dress, let them. It's not harming anyone, to be fair it's actually one of the more harmless trends that I've seen in the phandom. Like fancy_nancy said, Dan has expressed interest in feminine clothing and I highly doubt he'd do as much as bat an eye at this. I personally am accepting to people expressing themselves through their artwork, that's what art is all about. Free expression and your personal interests. I don't see people getting mad about drawings of "carpet prince Phil," so why would they be offended by a boy in a dress? That sounds a bit close-minded to me.

Now, what I don't agree with is forcing Dan or Phil into a situation that may not be comfortable for them, e.g trying to make Dan wear nail polish when he hasn't really expressed interest in doing so. That's uncalled for and unnecessary. There is a difference between projecting yourself into art, and projecting yourself onto an unwilling person.

IckleMissMayhem wrote:

bluebox-away wrote:Filming something with green screen..?

Looks like. (Or a photoshoot?) No rest for the wicked, eh?

(don't tell him, but his foot's disappeared...!)

Photoshoot is a good call, but wouldn't that usually be in a white space for soft lighting or with a specific background rather than green screening in a background? Where are they currently, could it be for a YT project?
Speaking of photoshoots, happy June (depending on your timezone), with this fantastic picture Edit: I fucked up it's only may 30th not the 31st ignore this until tomorrow lol

Jeweul wrote:I don't see people getting mad about drawings of "carpet prince Phil," so why would they be offended by a boy in a dress? That sounds a bit close-minded to me.

because drawings of phil as a prince aren't creepily sexualised, don't come with misogynistic undertones, don't continue the stereotypes and stigmas faced by feminine/trans/queer AMAB people, and actual princes aren't beaten up while some youtuber gets praised for people liking the idea of them as that.

bluebox-away wrote:Filming something with a professional green screen..? He looks great, I wonder what it's for

This makes me very excited! I wonder what it is! Probably going to end up being nothing knowing our luck..

my dear dudes and dudettes. really?

I mean, dresses are lovely. Men in dresses are lovely. Dan is a lovely man. The idea of him wearing a lovely piece of clothing is lovely. If we boil fanart down, it's just imagining the person portrayed in an AU. Would we be this pissy about this if a fireman!Dan trend became huge? Dan's not a fireman. He's expressed far less interest in firemanhood than in breaking down gender constructs. Fanart is just a conversation, and the fandom, in this case, is 100% continuing a conversation that Dan has started.

It's a piece of fabric. It *can* just be a piece of fabric, anyway. Nobody's trying to determine Dan's identity for him, the conversation, to me, is far more about how fabric does not determine that, and cannot, unless you want it to. Dan and gender constructs has been a conversation on a bigger scale ever since he privated his Men vs. Women video, saying that "gender rolls are the worst kind of bread" - a video that was very successful, had over 6kk views, and therefore, due to the circulatory nature of YT, was still bringing him money and subscribers - and yet, he cared enough to take private it because it was spreading a message he was no longer on board with. When he was, a few months or weeks later, asked about wearing nail polish, he expressed his lack of knowledge on removing it and said he did not own any. (Hey, if someone asked Dan to put on a temporary tattoo during a ls, and he'd said he doesn't have any & asked how you get them off, would people be bothered by one perspon bringing him some during a m&g?) He called himself a marbel princess in a picture.

The fact is that Dan has yet to express any discomfort with fanart featuring him in traditionally feminine roles. He embraces his softer side as well as his sarcastic, tougher one, he's a beautiful example of a complex human comfortable with his identity.

And that's been a journey, right? I mean, he's the boy who once didn't want to collab with Tyler Oakley for the fear of being percieved as his gay friend, who flat out once said he didn't wanna wear nail polish because he "wasn't comfortable enough with his sexuality" - and seeing that growth is just the most beautiful thing in the world to me. Seeing how h not only accepts those parts of himself, but embraces them, and seeing them celebrated rather than ridiculed in return... That's quite honestly one of my favourite things about him & the phandom.

And it like, makes me tear up with hapiness every time I think about it, so this conversation took me by a surprise, not gonna lie.

And now, let me tell you about the joy it brings me & many other people. Because it sadly is rare. It's rare to see men who are secure enough in their identity and their feminism to realize and acknowledge the nonsensical constructs society has set up. And Dan's not perfect, but he's - very important to me in this sense. And the fact that he also happens to be a person who embraces his femininity alongside is masculinity and is comfortable performing them both to his influential, largely female audience - it's like a hug to my very soul. Because femininity and masculinity, at their core, are constructs, they're a made up set of qualities faultily connected to just one gender identity when in fact, they're a part of all of us, in different measures, but feminity is often rejected as less valuable due to internalized sexism by men and women alike.

And like, sure. Drawing Dan in a cute dress can just be a random, cute thing. But to me, it's more than that. It's people celebrating a man who brings up the idea of being a princess and is happy with it. It's *everything* to me. And it'd be different if Dan has expressed discomfort at any time in the past year, but he hasn't, all discomfort, as far as I can tell, comes from biases that aren't Dan's.

phamnotof wrote:

my dear dudes and dudettes. really?

I mean, dresses are lovely. Men in dresses are lovely. Dan is a lovely man. The idea of him wearing a lovely piece of clothing is lovely. If we boil fanart down, it's just imagining the person portrayed in an AU. Would we be this pissy about this if a fireman!Dan trend became huge? Dan's not a fireman. He's expressed far less interest in firemanhood than in breaking down gender constructs. Fanart is just a conversation, and the fandom, in this case, is 100% continuing a conversation that Dan has started.

It's a piece of fabric. It *can* just be a piece of fabric, anyway. Nobody's trying to determine Dan's identity for him, the conversation, to me, is far more about how fabric does not determine that, and cannot, unless you want it to. Dan and gender constructs has been a conversation on a bigger scale ever since he privated his Men vs. Women video, saying that "gender rolls are the worst kind of bread" - a video that was very successful, had over 6kk views, and therefore, due to the circulatory nature of YT, was still bringing him money and subscribers - and yet, he cared enough to take private it because it was spreading a message he was no longer on board with. When he was, a few months or weeks later, asked about wearing nail polish, he expressed his lack of knowledge on removing it and said he did not own any. (Hey, if someone asked Dan to put on a temporary tattoo during a ls, and he'd said he doesn't have any & asked how you get them off, would people be bothered by one perspon bringing him some during a m&g?) He called himself a marbel princess in a picture.

The fact is that Dan has yet to express any discomfort with fanart featuring him in traditionally feminine roles. He embraces his softer side as well as his sarcastic, tougher one, he's a beautiful example of a complex human comfortable with his identity.

And that's been a journey, right? I mean, he's the boy who once didn't want to collab with Tyler Oakley for the fear of being percieved as his gay friend, who flat out once said he didn't wanna wear nail polish because he "wasn't comfortable enough with his sexuality" - and seeing that growth is just the most beautiful thing in the world to me. Seeing how h not only accepts those parts of himself, but embraces them, and seeing them celebrated rather than ridiculed in return... That's quite honestly one of my favourite things about him & the phandom.

And it like, makes me tear up with hapiness every time I think about it, so this conversation took me by a surprise, not gonna lie.

And now, let me tell you about the joy it brings me & many other people. Because it sadly is rare. It's rare to see men who are secure enough in their identity and their feminism to realize and acknowledge the nonsensical constructs society has set up. And Dan's not perfect, but he's - very important to me in this sense. And the fact that he also happens to be a person who embraces his femininity alongside is masculinity and is comfortable performing them both to his influential, largely female audience - it's like a hug to my very soul. Because femininity and masculinity, at their core, are constructs, they're a made up set of qualities faultily connected to just one gender identity when in fact, they're a part of all of us, in different measures, but feminity is often rejected as less valuable due to internalized sexism by men and women alike.

And like, sure. Drawing Dan in a cute dress can just be a random, cute thing. But to me, it's more than that. It's people celebrating a man who brings up the idea of being a princess and is happy with it. It's *everything* to me. And it'd be different if Dan has expressed discomfort at any time in the past year, but he hasn't, all discomfort, as far as I can tell, comes from biases that aren't Dan's.

THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL (that's all I have to add )

I'm sorry but as much as art is a way to be creative, express yourself...there's this tendency to fetishise Dan. Now he doesn't seem to have a problem, and if he does we will not know now, my issue is when peole cross the line to real life like that nail polish thing, like I already said if he wanted he could already do it.

Phil photo: I will not be hopeful for projects&co knowing them.

Kathrynxjane wrote:

bluebox-away wrote:Filming something with a professional green screen..? He looks great, I wonder what it's for

This makes me very excited! I wonder what it is! Probably going to end up being nothing knowing our luck..

(minor) TATINOF spoiler: ...or, if we're lucky, it's an original short film or something of the like

im pretty sure the princess thing was due to a failure of using my language for an ~aesthetic~ purpose
it's the obsession over him wearing dresses and the way it's shown that makes me uncomfortable as an AMAB person who presents as feminine. until he does it, i'll praise him for being a generally good dude in regards to gender roles, not for actually doing anything out of the ordinary. it's people like gackt or hyde who make it easier for me to present as i am, not a boy who implies dresses are nice. that's great, yes, but don't make it out to be something it isn't. it's the phandom reinforcing gender roles, he did something feminine now he has to be 100% feminine because only one or the other is acceptable
the one time he worse a dress was for a comedic purpose. that isn't breaking any gender roles, that's enforcing them, because a man wearing a dress is so crazy and funny, it must be a dare or a promise for charity, right? i just can't praise him for something he just doesn't do. i hope he does if he feels comfortable, but i can't praise him for something he doesn't come close to doing
are there any other AMAB genderqueer or otherwise trans feminine people here who can offer an opinion?

I’m glad that Dan doesn’t seem to care much for gender roles, that is great, but that doesn’t mean that people should put the role of the person who has to break down gender roles on his shoulders. That isn’t something he asked for. And people pressuring him to do these things just rub me the wrong way. Dan will wear nail polish or a dress if/when he wants to, not because people on the internet want him to. And that is the way it should be in my opinion.
So if people want to draw him wearing dresses or however they like, than that is absolutely fine, but that is where I feel it should stay.

SquishPhan wrote:I’m glad that Dan doesn’t seem to care much for gender roles, that is great, but that doesn’t mean that people should put the role of the person who has to break down gender roles on his shoulders. That isn’t something he asked for. And people pressuring him to do these things just rub me the wrong way. Dan will wear nail polish or a dress if/when he wants to, not because people on the internet want him to. And that is the way it should be in my opinion.
So if people want to draw him wearing dresses or however they like, than that is absolutely fine, but that is where I feel it should stay.

jaej wrote:im pretty sure the princess thing was due to a failure of using my language for an ~aesthetic~ purpose
it's the obsession over him wearing dresses and the way it's shown that makes me uncomfortable as an AMAB person who presents as feminine. until he does it, i'll praise him for being a generally good dude in regards to gender roles, not for actually doing anything out of the ordinary. it's people like gackt or hyde who make it easier for me to present as i am, not a boy who implies dresses are nice. that's great, yes, but don't make it out to be something it isn't. it's the phantom reinforcing gender roles, he did something feminine now he has to be 100% feminine because only one or the other is acceptable
the one time he worse a dress was for a comedic purpose. that isn't breaking any gender roles, that's enforcing them, because a man wearing a dress is so crazy and funny, it must be a date or a promise for charity, right? i just can't praise him for something he just doesn't do. i hope he does if he feels comfortable, but i can't praise him for something he doesn't come close to doing
are there any other AMAB genderqueer or otherwise trans feminine people here who can offer an opinion?

SquishPhan wrote:I’m glad that Dan doesn’t seem to care much for gender roles, that is great, but that doesn’t mean that people should put the role of the person who has to break down gender roles on his shoulders. That isn’t something he asked for. And people pressuring him to do these things just rub me the wrong way. Dan will wear nail polish or a dress if/when he wants to, not because people on the internet want him to. And that is the way it should be in my opinion.
So if people want to draw him wearing dresses or however they like, than that is absolutely fine, but that is where I feel it should stay.

It rubs me the wrong way too. Definitely because of the fetishizing aspect of it. Also bc I think that Dan is great, but he isn't a martyr for people who want to break down gender roles. Even the drawing of Dan in the dress flipping off the anon rubbed me the wrong way, bc it wasn't Dan speaking. Yes Dan is great about not reinforcing gender roles. But we've never seen him flip someone off for reinforcing gender roles. That isn't Dan speaking, that's that specific blog.

spaceguitar wrote: It rubs me the wrong way too. Definitely because of the fetishizing aspect of it. Also bc I think that Dan is great, but he isn't a martyr for people who want to break down gender roles. Even the drawing of Dan in the dress flipping off the anon rubbed me the wrong way, bc it wasn't Dan speaking. Yes Dan is great about not reinforcing gender roles. But we've never seen him flip someone off for reinforcing gender roles. That isn't Dan speaking, that's that specific blog.

Yes, yes to all of this, they are speaking through Dan as if he was the leader of the "we want to break down the gender roles" team.

jaej wrote:im pretty sure the princess thing was due to a failure of using my language for an ~aesthetic~ purpose
it's the obsession over him wearing dresses and the way it's shown that makes me uncomfortable as an AMAB person who presents as feminine. until he does it, i'll praise him for being a generally good dude in regards to gender roles, not for actually doing anything out of the ordinary. it's people like gackt or hyde who make it easier for me to present as i am, not a boy who implies dresses are nice. that's great, yes, but don't make it out to be something it isn't. it's the phantom reinforcing gender roles, he did something feminine now he has to be 100% feminine because only one or the other is acceptable
the one time he worse a dress was for a comedic purpose. that isn't breaking any gender roles, that's enforcing them, because a man wearing a dress is so crazy and funny, it must be a dare or a promise for charity, right? i just can't praise him for something he just doesn't do. i hope he does if he feels comfortable, but i can't praise him for something he doesn't come close to doing
are there any other AMAB genderqueer or otherwise trans feminine people here who can offer an opinion?

I agree with all of this, though I am cis, so please correct me if I'm saying anything that's out of line.

Dan is praised a lot for not caring about gender roles, when there are actual trans and non-binary advocates out there wearing dresses who don't get this same kind of attention or praise. It reminds me of feminist female YouTubers who get called ''annoying sjw feminazis'' while Dan and Phil are praised for mentioning once that they are feminists. As much as the Phandom wants to see Dan as some kind of queer icon, the fact is that he's not publicly ''out'' at this point in his life and might never be.(Insert disclaimer here for if he's not actually straight, blah blah blah.) He seemingly has no interest in being a LGBT role model rn and we're going to have to accept that.

SquishPhan wrote:

bluebox-away wrote:Filming something with a professional green screen..? He looks great, I wonder what it's for

This picture fills me with determination.
Can't wait to find out what this is for, but I'm excited about the green screen.

This picture fills me with pure happiness. he is always so gorgeous (when he doesnt do his usual open mouth pose like he is trying to hide his beauty)
they are probably filming sth for the documentary.

he also liked this: phil agrees that tyler is a rat. an obvious shade for his tumblr mishaps