Dan & Phil Part 7: Gator Girls Gone Wild

[corn flakes]

Honestly I'm so excited for them

I find quite fascinating how Dan's shirt became this iconic piece of clothing, does Phil have something similar?
Also I love deppy but I also want to see which youtubers will try to take a peek of them, I saw some names in the playlist website...

[taetaewl]

Honestly, that's what I reckon was in the box between the piano and the door in his room through the liveshows recently. Tons of them so you can wear one onstage, then peel it off (eww, stage lights are effing HOT...!) and chuck it afterwards.
They're gonna NAIL it though.

Knowing Dan he will spray some perfume and wear it the next day too, or just hang it up in their hotel room to air it before the next performance... But tots the boxes must indeed had been that shirt, your observation skills are on point!

Still can't get over their new merchendies tho, two straight no-homo bros making merchs that reminds them of their Japan trip? I'm not falling for the bs crap they are feeding us, there must have been some sentimental thing that went on in Japan specially knowing dan favorite that japanese wedding tweet for them to make this theme *anniversary*

[kay]

I knew Phil's eyebrows were light/a different color than his dyed hair, but in those photobooth pictures they really stood out to me. Have some super bad photo edits of him with filled in brows:

Note I don't mean these edits as like a "this is what 100% what he should start doing and this is the only correct way to manage your appearance," I was just interested in what the darker eyebrows would actually look like (as an amateur makeup artist) and I was bored and had 5 minutes to play on Photoshop.
I for one actually like the fact his eyebrows don't match, it's interesting and kind of quirky in a nice way

Whoa, I didn't expect him to look so different! I can't decide if I like this?? Haha, wow it's so jarring. I think i like it both ways. But the darker definitely makes his eyes stand out more.

[taetaewl]

Oh god I doubled posted.. what do one do. Well I will present you with this lovely pic;

sours: tumbr

[taetaewl]

@pixlexia
Phil with darker eyebrows makes him look a tad bit younger, or is it only me? Well they do say that filled in eyebrows gives you a younger look right? But definitely harsher. I prefer phil with lighter eyebrow colour... maybe because im used to seeing him like that.

All this eyebrow talking makes me thing about when Dan plucked his... do you reckon he still does it? I find them not be as thin as back then. Was it around 2013? or 2014?

[vincentian]

Agree with what phamnotof said regarding merch. Especially 2) - that's why the example with American band making merch with cyrillic doesn't work the same way.

Isn't Russia's culture and especially its people fetishized to death though? With the ways they are represented fuelling stereotypes and denying the complexity of their culture?

2) cultural exchange is a much different thing when the power dynamic has been messed up by history, so yeah, western people adopting japanese texts is different than japanese ppl using western languages on their designs. and the ever-brewing culture of fetishization of japanese culture that in many ways fuels stereotypes and denies complexity makes this even more complicated

on this idea that some cultures should be more sheltered and protected than others because of past dynamics, I actually kinda have a problem with that? I see it as some kind of weird patriarchy. Like a reversed fetishisation. One end of the spectrum you have orientalism and weaboo culture etc. but on the other end you have this idea that it shouldn't be touched, interacted with or mixed with by non-natives and it effectively puts it on another (inferior) level, like a child that should be protected because it is weaker? I don't think Japanese culture is on a weaker level compared to western culture and I don't think it should be given a special untouchable treatment.

Trashqueen, I also want Rose and Rosie and Dan and Phil to become friends (or just collab tbh)

I guess Russian culture has less elements that can be potentially fetishized anyway than the Japanese one, but more demeaning stereotypes which are unlikely to be used in any kind of merch without political subtext or the intention to bully. Though this estimate is subjective.
I agree with you that double standards are a problem in this situation, but it's such a complicated subject? And it's difficult to delete some potentially problematic ideas when they have been tightly ingrained in international mentality over many centuries. And kept in place by power dynamics and multiple sociopolitical, economical, geographical specifics. akui said it better, those issues are to be treated with sensitivity. Please excuse my inarticulateness.

[pixlexia]

All this eyebrow talking makes me thing about when Dan plucked his... do you reckon he still does it? I find them not be as thin as back then. Was it around 2013? or 2014?

Can't know for sure, but personally his eyebrows have looked really natural/fuller within the past year. Especially if we look at that one mirror selfie, though it was a few months ago:

Usually if someone plucked their eyebrows you wouldn't see those hairs on top and the ends would be more thinned out (though everyone has their own preference!)

I'm amused by small things, but I love how Phil's eyebrows are so thinner and arched and Dan's eyebrows are a lot thicker and rounder.
(Common "beauty" rules always say that thinner, arched brows make a person look older and thick round brows are more youthful. )

[DryCereal]

Honestly, that's what I reckon was in the box between the piano and the door in his room through the liveshows recently. Tons of them so you can wear one onstage, then peel it off (eww, stage lights are effing HOT...!) and chuck it afterwards.
They're gonna NAIL it though.

Knowing Dan he will spray some perfume and wear it the next day too, or just hang it up in their hotel room to air it before the next performance... But tots the boxes must indeed had been that shirt, your observation skills are on point!

Please take that back... just the thought of that makes me want to heave.

I knew Phil's eyebrows were light/a different color than his dyed hair, but in those photobooth pictures they really stood out to me. Have some super bad photo edits of him with filled in brows:

[img]<a%20rel="nofollow"%20href="http://i65.tinypic.com/27yn255.jpg[/img][/spoiler" class="vglnk"><span>http</span><span>://</span><span>i65</span><span>.</span><span>tinypic</span><span>.</span><span>com</span><span>/</span><span>27yn255</span><span>.</span><span>jpg</span><span>[/</span><span>img</span><span>][/</span><span>spoiler</span></a>]
Note I don't mean these edits as like a "this is what 100% what he should start doing and this is the only correct way to manage your appearance," I was just interested in what the darker eyebrows would actually look like (as an amateur makeup artist) and I was bored and had 5 minutes to play on Photoshop.
I for one actually like the fact his eyebrows don't match, it's interesting and kind of quirky in a nice way

Whoa, I didn't expect him to look so different! I can't decide if I like this?? Haha, wow it's so jarring. I think i like it both ways. But the darker definitely makes his eyes stand out more.

+1... It's all kinds of wrong, because it's different, but it doesn't look bad. Colour me confused.

[jaej]

the reason it isnt really a 'goes both ways' situation is because of how much western culture got to japan as a result of american occupation, cultural sharing in japan is very much a tense issue.

the country was almost completely cut off from the rest of the world for hundreds of years to stay closed off from western influence and christianity. the problem was that this kind of brewed a sense of national purity, i guess? so when that period ended, japan did what europe was into and began to invade countries. this is actually the reason i have any link to japan - the asian side of my family are ethnic koreans who were taken to japan during this time, so i'm not trying to defend japan during the war, that rule slaughtered my people lmao.
the point is that the country has a lot of times been a bubble of sorts, and after being taken over countries especially start to become more protective of their culture. (korea actually kept very strict trade rules of japanese music and film into the 90s and 00s!)
japanese culture being misrepresented is dangerous due to its past of dehumanising people.

it's not that they've done something horrible, its not like they're in yellowface, but the views they put across overall, not just from this one thing - crazy, creepy, or a backdrop to White Adventures™ - are still not okay. i expected better from them, especially when they have a large influence. i'm more disappointed than angry, and i'm side-eyeing them massively.

and i know people will bring duncan and mimei into it somehow as a defence of it being okay, like she didnt change her name to sound more japanese. besides that, duncan is very much of the 'if youre offended its your fault!!' crowd. if he was a uk vlogger the phandom would hate him, but he gets away with it. mimei had a series of mocking japanese peoples english.

[offtopic]jaej my roomate is also obsessed with Jaejoong[/offtopic]

[offtopic]your roommate has the right idea[/offtopic]

[offtopic]semi off topic: speaking of jaejoong, i want dan to take his mild goth, semi androgynous, unconventionally zipped, monochrome fashion further. + hair upgrade of any sort just something different. + sort the jeans out a little bit. i just want him to keep doing what he is doing but more make it bigger baby what am i saying[/offtopic]

[bluebox-away]

Rewatching Phil & Dan in New York, while procrastinating I have an exam in 2 hours and I'm on YouTube oops, and Dan claimed to have the height advantage of about 2cm back in 2013, so I'm now even more confused about what their actual heights are..

at 1:59

[phamnotof]

Isn't Russia's culture and especially its people fetishized to death though? With the ways they are represented fuelling stereotypes and denying the complexity of their culture?

on this idea that some cultures should be more sheltered and protected than others because of past dynamics, I actually kinda have a problem with that? I see it as some kind of weird patriarchy. Like a reversed fetishisation. One end of the spectrum you have orientalism and weaboo culture etc. but on the other end you have this idea that it shouldn't be touched, interacted with or mixed with by non-natives and it effectively puts it on another (inferior) level, like a child that should be protected because it is weaker? I don't think Japanese culture is on a weaker level compared to western culture and I don't think it should be given a special untouchable treatment.

I wouldn't call it fetishization. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is a perception of an outsider, but the way I see Russian culture represented in popular media reads far more like stereotypization. Which is a part of fetishization, but the terms don't mean the same thing. I don't think you'd find a whole subculture massively dedicated to calling themselves "so uber-russian, wow" after religiously watching a few Russian TV shows. Fetishization is about wanting to place yourself within that culture while not understanding the complexities of it & not respecting the realities of people who are actually living in them. The way I see Russia talked about & represented is certainly not complex enough & problematic, but where it's denying struggles and history of opression with Japanese culture and only portraying cutesy, simplified stuff (to a point where there are people on the interent who genuinely believe that D&P could have gotten legally married in Japan), it tends to be about vilifying over 140 million people and making them seem like this one vodka-guzzling sleazy homophobic white guy, which also ties into a history of western culture punishig Russian people for a history they were often not yet alive for & are suffering the consequences of more than anyone today - and it's certainly a conversation to be had, but I don't think it's comparable.

as far as your other point goes: I don't wanna just go all nopity-nope on you and tell you that "reverse fetishization" sounds about as real as "reverse racism" to me, so I'll try to elaborate: yeah, there's definitely complexities within wanting to not appropriate cultures, nobody wants segregation, which is why I said that intent matters a lot. As long as it's not set to ridicule or sort of "steal from without crediting" and it's done from a place of respect, I think it's okay. But trying to not be that appropriative asshole doesn't make you a reverse asshole (now there's a mental image), imo, it just makes you someone conscious of the fact that context will always play a role in the world, that we don't exist in a bubble and that other people's feelings matter. It's not about special treatment, but about trying to have a small part in fixing what's been broken.

[lilMango]

I felt a bit uncomfortable when I first saw the shirts, but I feel like it's not really my place to voice my opinions about whether or not it is actually offensive since I am not Japanese and I don't have anyone close to me that is Japanese either. That being said, I think if people are offended by the shirts, and they contact Deppy, they'll take it down and apologize. They want to do what is right, so if there is enough discomfort about the shirts then they'll be removed. I hope.
If not, I would be mad. But for now I have to sit back and look at the other merch... it's all underwhelming to me, but whatever. My sister would probably like some of it. The poster is cute, too.

[taetaewl]

Please take that back... just the thought of that makes me want to heave.

Alright alright I'm taking it back just for you and knowing there is a neat freak Dan out there who would never do that. But then there is also a lazy Dan, and a oops a little bit of flour from a baking video won't stop me for wearing the same pair of jeans Dan tots joking tho!

[SquishPhan]

I felt a bit uncomfortable when I first saw the shirts, but I feel like it's not really my place to voice my opinions about whether or not it is actually offensive since I am not Japanese and I don't have anyone close to me that is Japanese either. That being said, I think if people are offended by the shirts, and they contact Deppy, they'll take it down and apologize. They want to do what is right, so if there is enough discomfort about the shirts then they'll be removed. I hope.
If not, I would be mad. But for now I have to sit back and look at the other merch... it's all underwhelming to me, but whatever. My sister would probably like some of it. The poster is cute, too.

I’m sorry but I hope they won’t take it down, just because it offends a few people. These days you can’t do anything without someone finding it offensive and to be honest I’m a little bit fed up with the overly PC nature of it all.
Now I could go all philosophical about what 'doing what's right' actually means, and how that is based on set ethics, morals ect. and that the meaning of it is different to different people, but yeah let's not get into that tonight.
I may be a bit cranky right now, just so you know.

[Diyes_Celine]

I felt a bit uncomfortable when I first saw the shirts, but I feel like it's not really my place to voice my opinions about whether or not it is actually offensive since I am not Japanese and I don't have anyone close to me that is Japanese either. That being said, I think if people are offended by the shirts, and they contact Deppy, they'll take it down and apologize. They want to do what is right, so if there is enough discomfort about the shirts then they'll be removed. I hope.
If not, I would be mad. But for now I have to sit back and look at the other merch... it's all underwhelming to me, but whatever. My sister would probably like some of it. The poster is cute, too.

I really think that people from Japan should judge whether the shirt designs are offensive or not. I mean not every country is "sensitive" with this kind of stuff. We can argue about cultural appropriation but if the people who should be offended have no qualms about this who are we to judge?

I know this is a stupid argument but I am Asian and I don't find it offensive.For me, the shirt simply reminds me of the AoT design. Also, Japan is not part Deppy's brand, but it has been their dream destination ever since. It's like they were commemorating this special part of their lives with the fans.

[kuensukki]

I know this is stupid argument but I am Asian I don't find it offensive.For me, the shirt simply reminds me of the AoT design. Also, Japan is not part Deppy's brand, but it has been their dream destination ever since. It's like they were commemorating this special part of their lives with the fans.

I must agree with SquishPhan that I don't want them to get rid of them. At the end of the day DP aren't as bad as the Diamond Co, or any of your other cultural frustrations being expressed. They just used the words in japanese and although it was a bit insensitive, I think Diyes_Celine said it best. Japhan was such a big deal in the phandom and I think their intention was to capture that not to take way from Japanese culture. We all have expressed our frustrations of our cultures being manipulated for capitalism but this is the most mild of scenarios. Also I can't imagine how difficult it would be for them to call off all the shirts and change the whole design.. it's a bit impractical from a business standpoint.

[lilMango]

I felt a bit uncomfortable when I first saw the shirts, but I feel like it's not really my place to voice my opinions about whether or not it is actually offensive since I am not Japanese and I don't have anyone close to me that is Japanese either. That being said, I think if people are offended by the shirts, and they contact Deppy, they'll take it down and apologize. They want to do what is right, so if there is enough discomfort about the shirts then they'll be removed. I hope.
If not, I would be mad. But for now I have to sit back and look at the other merch... it's all underwhelming to me, but whatever. My sister would probably like some of it. The poster is cute, too.

I’m sorry but I hope they won’t take it down, just because it offends a few people. These days you can’t do anything without someone finding it offensive and to be honest I’m a little bit fed up with the overly PC nature of it all.
Now I could go all philosophical about what 'doing what's right' actually means, and how that is based on set ethics, morals ect. and that the meaning of it is different to different people, but yeah let's not get into that tonight.
I may be a bit cranky right now, just so you know.

I suppose my language (what is considered "right" vs "wrong") wasn't precise, but I think it would certainly be the best thing to do in this situation for everyone if they were to take the item off of the shop if people from that culture are offended by it.

[SquishPhan]

I suppose my language (what is considered "right" vs "wrong") wasn't precise, but I think it would certainly be the best thing to do in this situation for everyone if they were to take the item off of the shop if people from that culture are offended by it.

But even then you will have people from the same culture where one part is completely fine with it and the other part isn’t. I mean who is to say which side is the right/more important one?
I think taking them down is very extreme, and like kuensukki said probably very impractical business wise.
If they chose to do so, all power to them, but if not then I for one will not be mad or disappointed in them.

[coffee pig]

I completely get that the new shirts are cultural appropriation, but they are mad cute and I want one. I feel conflicted. I wish Dan and Phil would put out more merch that was a bit more subtle, I wouldn't want to walk around campus in their other t-shirts.

[phamnotof]

I suppose my language (what is considered "right" vs "wrong") wasn't precise, but I think it would certainly be the best thing to do in this situation for everyone if they were to take the item off of the shop if people from that culture are offended by it.

I do agree that it's always really important to listen to the people most directly affected, but we can also in no way assume they're a monolith - there's gonna be people who hate it, people who don't care, people who want to buy it but see other's perspective, people who love everything about it. And D&P can in no way please all of them, so it makes sense to go the with the majority, and the majority truly does seem to be excited. That is not to say we should dismiss the concerns of those who feel differnetly, but I think this situation is hardly serious enough to warrant for measures as extreme as not selling the merch.

[coffee pig]

[offtopic]jaej
semi off topic: speaking of jaejoong, i want dan to take his mild goth, semi androgynous, unconventionally zipped, monochrome fashion further. + hair upgrade of any sort just something different. + sort the jeans out a little bit. i just want him to keep doing what he is doing but more make it bigger baby what am i saying[/offtopic]

Oh my God, yes please. I hope this is where he's heading towards fashion-wise, seeing as he's getting more comfortable with himself and starting to care less about traditional gender roles. I love his more out-there sartorial choices, like the leather t-shirt, which I refuse to believe he bought ironically. You know you actually love it, Dan.

[corn flakes]

[lilMango]

I suppose my language (what is considered "right" vs "wrong") wasn't precise, but I think it would certainly be the best thing to do in this situation for everyone if they were to take the item off of the shop if people from that culture are offended by it.

I do agree that it's always really important to listen to the people most directly affected, but we can also in no way assume they're a monolith - there's gonna be people who hate it, people who don't care, people who want to buy it but see other's perspective, people who love everything about it. And D&P can in no way please all of them, so it makes sense to go the with the majority, and the majority truly does seem to be excited. That is not to say we should dismiss the concerns of those who feel differnetly, but I think this situation is hardly serious enough to warrant for measures as extreme as not selling the merch.

That's true. If it was a situation that caused an uproar from people, then I think it would be right for them to take it down, but since the majority are excited about it, they probably won't. I think they should at least talk about it, however, if there are some people that go to them about it. It seems like the kind of thing they shouldn't just ignore if it becomes a bit of an issue. I do agree, though, that someone will be offended no matter what. It's a matter of listening to the audience and then responding in the correct way, simply because they have the capability to do so. If they didn't do live shows, etc. then I wouldn't expect anything from them, but since they have a somewhat close and interactive relationship with the people that buy their products (I hate talking about it like that but you know what I mean), I would think they should at least address it and give their thoughts.

[trashqueen]

i can't deal with the second hand embarrassment of white people (and poc from cultures that have nothing to do with the one being discussed, like me, but mainly whites) talking about cultural appropriation so i'm gonna sit this one out

but just general life advice, if someone from a culture tells you something is offensive don't argue with them unless you are also from said culture, they definitely know more about the topic than you do

*has war flashbacks to people defending dan's old racist/ignorant comments about latinxs*

[SquishPhan]

Was he one of their bosses at BBC radio 1, or was that someone else?