Dan & Phil Part 22: #rubberupfordan

[august]

re: creative fanwork

something i used to see the phandom interact with a lot that i don't anymore are fanmixes of all things on 8tracks. back last summer if you made something in the phan tag it would easily get 70 listens in a day or two, a few of mine hit 500+ of all things. i still make a few, but since about january of this year i've noticed close to no one's mixes get more than 70 listens given even a couple weeks, and it's actually quite disheartening. i have no idea when the en masse exodus happened or why, but one day my mix couldn't even hit a 100 and i was like just something i wanted to chime in with, not that fanmixes are the epitome of creative, but hey ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ something i noticed

i think in this case it has to do with 8tracks -- if i remember correctly, they shut down access to their site to anyone outside of the united states and have had issues monetizing their site (if the multiple emails i've received soliciting investments in their company by sheer virtue of having signed up for an account have anything to say about it). also they've replaced several of my tracks with poorer quality tracks and i eventually gave up on the site altogether. i agree that last summer was peak playlist time -- i feel like i ran into a fanmix or #aesthetic mix every day on my tumblr dash.

I often wonder if this being a Real Person fandom has anything to do with it? Honestly, it was so taboo to even write RPF a decade ago, it seemed as though you had to scour the netherworlds to find it.

i think this is absolutely still an issue and i understand the disinclination toward shipping real people (despite apparently not caring too much myself). i lurk a few other communities where people actively look down on rpf. but obviously that doesn't stop fandom and good content from happening anyway. now how to just get more of it...

[blueapple_x]

- ohh, can we talk about something? I've felt this more than before but I don't think we focused on this specifically here before:
A lot of people (including me) feel like something might change after this year/tatinof ends, I guess the feeling seems to come from how they have been more comfortable touching/interacting with each other, talking about the other in live shows and social medias. I've seen some people talk about how it might just be the affect of being even more close in the tour (cramped buses/hotels and being around each other all the time, not just staying in their own rooms) and how it just made them even closer friends than before but like nothing will change when this year ends.
Do you guys have the same feelings? Where do you think it comes from? What do you think might change?
(am I reaching? I just really really want to see everyone's take on it no matter what you believe they are)

I have no idea what's going to happen after tatinof but I do feel like some things may change. What? I'm not sure yet but I'm excited for the future!

US vs AUS tour:

I think everyone has their own reasons for why they may think the AUS tour seems duller. Likewise, everyone has their own reasons for why they may have found the US tour more interesting. There doesn't have to be one right or wrong answer that applies to every single person. Also, once again, finding it more dull/boring doesn't mean anyone is blaming Dan or Phil (or anyone for that matter) for that. From what I've read it seems like everyone here knows that that feeling is personal to them and aren't looking to blame anyone? I'm saying this just in case anyone felt offended/misunderstood.

I would say the phandom is a bit different from other fandoms, in that not everyone here enjoy fanfic and fanart, nor are familiar with fandom culture. Similarly, phan is very different from most ships. My experience is an example of someone that has never been into fandoms, and probably won't be in the future. I'm mostly interested in speculation about real events that have to do with dan and phil, their past and the never ending 'are they/aren't they' question. That's the only reason why I started posting in a forum, and while I find the art cute and I've recently started to read some fics, it's still not really what interests me/keeps me in the phandom. Neither is their content, so going back to the previous discussion about finding the AUS tour more boring than the USA one, to me it is indeed more boring, but mainly because there's really nothing to speculate about (that I'm aware of).

[internetakeover]

I often wonder if this being a Real Person fandom has anything to do with it? Honestly, it was so taboo to even write RPF a decade ago, it seemed as though you had to scour the netherworlds to find it.

I'm not sure this is necessarily a massive part of it - it didn't seem to be an issue for 1D, for example, though maybe that fandom going to hell in a handbasket scared people off again! And I've been in much smaller RPF fandoms that do equal the phandom for hits - though they might get there a bit slower! - and especially comments, though I think small fandoms comment better generally. (of course personal experience is limited and subjective)

It might partly be to do with so much fic being posted on tumblr, which is far from an ideal vehicle for comments, navigation or any real discussion - generally, not just of fic! And while I agree that there's not a massive amount of discussion around art either, that does seem to spread a lot better on tumblr, which is a much more visual medium. It could also be b/c the phandom is younger, and has a lot of fans who are newer to fandom itself - as annetamiau mentioned - who didn't start out in places like lj, where there was a clearer focus on fic partially just because it was a more text based medium and fic communities were often a kind of hub of fandom? If you've only known twitter and tumblr as fandom hubs I can see that fic wouldn't be such a central part of fandom experience, as it's less visible on those places. But idk, I'm sure there are many factors which all contribute, and I might well be talking utter rubbish.

[bluewho]

rant about Shout magazine:

I remember when Shout magazine launched and while I was at the mid/older end of their target audience agewise, I don't remember it being this cringe, but then that was 20 years ago.

surely not anyone above 12 buys this magazine? nothing against 12 year olds

But does this kind of language appeal to even 12 year olds? Does it appeal to anyone of any age? I remember being 12 and I didn't talk like this. (In fact, I was more articulate - I've regressed with age. I certainly wouldn't have understood what things like '#totesadorbz' meant - hell I still don't).

My point is that it's all a little much, and it's all a little patronizing. The writers of these magazines seem to drastically underestimate their audience. It begs the question why.

If they wanted to make the magazine more accessible to younger age groups they would reduce complex language, not add in complex words like '#totesadorbz', so it can't be about making it readable for a young age group. Instead the use of this kind of language is stemming from an idea of what readers of the magazine are like. From the looks of it, it must be a pretty bleak idea - one I would speculate is saturated in stereotypes about 'girls who watch YouTube and have an interest in celebrity culture and buy magazines'.

On US vs. Australian tour boredom:

Also, once again, finding it more dull/boring doesn't mean anyone is blaming Dan or Phil (or anyone for that matter) for that. From what I've read it seems like everyone here knows that that feeling is personal to them and aren't looking to blame anyone?

For me, the US tour was infinitely more boring than the current Australian one. Because during the US tour we had a massive content drought - so there was a lack of videos - but as a by-product of that the phandom was less engaged and interested - it's less fun to be a member of the phandom when the phandom's always complaining about the lack of content. This tour has been more interesting to me because they have been releasing content - in terms of tweets and videos.

In short, I would say it's Dan and Phil's fault, blueapple_x, because they chose to release fewer tweets and videos during the US tour, and seem to be making more of an effort to release more now. Although, I realize this view is personal in the sense that since their content is my primary reason for being interested in them, a lack of it pushes me away. Basically I agree with Catallena.

[alittledizzy]

I often wonder if this being a Real Person fandom has anything to do with it? Honestly, it was so taboo to even write RPF a decade ago, it seemed as though you had to scour the netherworlds to find it.

I'm not sure this is necessarily a massive part of it - it didn't seem to be an issue for 1D, for example, though maybe that fandom going to hell in a handbasket scared people off again! And I've been in much smaller RPF fandoms that do equal the phandom for hits - though they might get there a bit slower! - and especially comments, though I think small fandoms comment better generally. (of course personal experience is limited and subjective)

It might partly be to do with so much fic being posted on tumblr, which is far from an ideal vehicle for comments, navigation or any real discussion - generally, not just of fic! And while I agree that there's not a massive amount of discussion around art either, that does seem to spread a lot better on tumblr, which is a much more visual medium. It could also be b/c the phandom is younger, and has a lot of fans who are newer to fandom itself - as annetamiau mentioned - who didn't start out in places like lj, where there was a clearer focus on fic partially just because it was a more text based medium and fic communities were often a kind of hub of fandom? If you've only known twitter and tumblr as fandom hubs I can see that fic wouldn't be such a central part of fandom experience, as it's less visible on those places. But idk, I'm sure there are many factors which all contribute, and I might well be talking utter rubbish.

You honestly just said everything that I was trying (and ultimately failed) to express earlier, especially about how fic communities were often fandom hubs and how smaller fandoms get both as much and often better quality feedback with fic.

The quality of feedback also informs the quality of the writing (and art), I think. If someone with vast talent enters a fandom and gets no encouragement they might not end up lingering that long. Especially if, as you said, they're posting on tumblr where if something is not immediately seen it'll likely never be seen. There's no inherent search function of tumblr that will show you a gorgeous fic or piece of artwork a year ago that no one with enough followers happened to see in the tag. (As opposed to somewhere like ao3 or livejournal tags/memories in ye olden days - where there are definitely search parameters that will bring you around to years-old fics.) I've always been someone who relies heavily on finding 'my people' in a fandom in its creative corners and finding/connecting with people like that has been more of a struggle in the phandom than it ever has been in any fandom for me before. It definitely left me feeling very alienated for a while before I began making friends on GG.

[blueapple_x]

Lol people are amused that Dan is walking around wearing his own merch.

[daichii]

The photos they've taken lately are very cute, but I feel like my engagement/obsession has dropped a lot so it's not relly as exciting as it would have been months ago. This I think is why I find this leg of the tour extremely boring too, even though we've had a somewhat consistent amount of vids in the past few weeks.

I feel very disconnected and the few liveshows were not really enough to make me feel that awareness of knowing what they were working on and the bts of their vids, the tour, etc. which is not really there with other youtubers.

Also the thought that we might have the european and/or asian leg of the tour coming soon is a bit depressing. At least I think we might get the bts vid and book before them but who knows. I don't feel like I'll unstan them before that happens because I did consider really hard if I wanted to buy them or not and I realized that I do want to and that I'm already looking forward to pinof and halloween baking so I'll just pass time with other hobbies while I wait.

RE: BBC award, I hope they win or at least go to the show bc I very much want to see them in suits. Perhaps Phil will even get a more daring outfit, but even if he doesn't they always try to look their best for this kind of events which you know...

[stella]

rant about Shout magazine:

But does this kind of language appeal to even 12 year olds? Does it appeal to anyone of any age? I remember being 12 and I didn't talk like this. (In fact, I was more articulate - I've regressed with age. I certainly wouldn't have understood what things like '#totesadorbz' meant - hell I still don't).

My point is that it's all a little much, and it's all a little patronizing. The writers of these magazines seem to drastically underestimate their audience. It begs the question why.

If they wanted to make the magazine more accessible to younger age groups they would reduce complex language, not add in complex words like '#totesadorbz', so it can't be about making it readable for a young age group. Instead the use of this kind of language is stemming from an idea of what readers of the magazine are like. From the looks of it, it must be a pretty bleak idea - one I would speculate is saturated in stereotypes about 'girls who watch YouTube and have an interest in celebrity culture and buy magazines'.

Agree with all of this. I've always felt like everyone, regardless of age, is way up deppy's ass or hardly in the fandom at all, so whoever is buying that magazine has already seen all the tweets and stuff or literally doesn't give a shit. And if these kids have internet access and know about WeTheUnicorns and stuff like that, why are they even buying the magazine? And whenever I seen those tween-y magazines I picture some crazed business people shouting "WHAT DO KIDS LIKE THESE DAYS?? SWAG?? HASHTAGS??? YOLO??" Reminds me of

The photos they've taken lately are very cute, but I feel like my engagement/obsession has dropped a lot so it's not relly as exciting as it would have been months ago. This I think is why I find this leg of the tour extremely boring too, even though we've had a somewhat consistent amount of vids in the past few weeks.

I agree that my engagement has definitely dropped. A few months ago my friends and I would have gone wild over those twitter pictures and vids. I really hope I (and many of us here) regain interest when TATINOF is over.

[gnostic]

Regarding the phandom creative output: forgive my blunt voice, but another reason for disdaining is it a very low general quality of written fiction. Let's be real, most of it is hilarious smut and/or romance written by early to mid teens. Especially if you are used to fandoms with high quality of writing (hello DF fandom), there's going to be little interest by older members of the phandom in writing that does not come from well known and recommended sources

[Diyes_Celine]

Regarding the phandom creative output: forgive my blunt voice, but another reason for disdaining is it a very low general quality of written fiction. Let's be real, most of it is hilarious smut and/or romance written by early to mid teens. Especially if you are used to fandoms with high quality of writing (hello DF fandom), there's going to be little interest by older members of the phandom in writing that does not come from well known and recommended sources

As an avid fan fiction reader, I must admit that most of the Phan fics are bland. The Klaine (Glee) and HP fan fics I've read lately are far better than the most popular fic (# of kudos) in A03.

[uglyamerican]

Lol people are amused that Dan is walking around wearing his own merch.

Daniel's nips must have been poking out again - it is winter. What is the reflection behind and to the left of Phil? Sparks flying out of his head? Birds?

[blueapple_x]

According to her instagram he did keep them.

[mysterylovescompany]

What is the reflection behind and to the left of Phil? Sparks flying out of his head? Birds?

Fancy light display from inside the building behind?

[confusedpanda]

According to her instagram he did keep them.

This seriously reminds me of the old Dan mail videos. There was always that one person that would send weird stuff to him. Anyways, it wouldn't surprise he if actually did keep it just for the lol factor.

[majitzu]

I mean he asked for that to happen with his last video. It has make me laugh

[bear]

rant about Shout magazine:

I remember when Shout magazine launched and while I was at the mid/older end of their target audience agewise, I don't remember it being this cringe, but then that was 20 years ago.

surely not anyone above 12 buys this magazine? nothing against 12 year olds

But does this kind of language appeal to even 12 year olds? Does it appeal to anyone of any age? I remember being 12 and I didn't talk like this. (In fact, I was more articulate - I've regressed with age. I certainly wouldn't have understood what things like '#totesadorbz' meant - hell I still don't).

My point is that it's all a little much, and it's all a little patronizing. The writers of these magazines seem to drastically underestimate their audience. It begs the question why.

If they wanted to make the magazine more accessible to younger age groups they would reduce complex language, not add in complex words like '#totesadorbz', so it can't be about making it readable for a young age group. Instead the use of this kind of language is stemming from an idea of what readers of the magazine are like. From the looks of it, it must be a pretty bleak idea - one I would speculate is saturated in stereotypes about 'girls who watch YouTube and have an interest in celebrity culture and buy magazines'.

I guess I should flat out say that I'm a lot younger than people on here. I'm not gonna say my age as I don't want to be judged or known for that, but I know how kids and teens act.
I know that no one over 10 would buy this. My little sister would hate this. All my friends would think this was the most cringe thing ever. I think it's terrible.
But i think it's trying to aim for teens, but failing horribly. My sister knew what totes adorz!!!!! meant since she was 6 or 7. I think this magazine is trying to appeal to teens, but failing horribly.
They're using language I would have used in elementary school, and if you said that crap in middle school and up you'd be very cringey.
I know for a fact if any kid my age was caught genuinely reading that, they would not have a good reputation.

Agree with all of this. I've always felt like everyone, regardless of age, is way up deppy's ass or hardly in the fandom at all, so whoever is buying that magazine has already seen all the tweets and stuff or literally doesn't give a shit. And if these kids have internet access and know about WeTheUnicorns and stuff like that, why are they even buying the magazine? And whenever I seen those tween-y magazines I picture some crazed business people shouting "WHAT DO KIDS LIKE THESE DAYS?? SWAG?? HASHTAGS??? YOLO??"

^this

[uglyamerican]

I guess I should flat out say that I'm a lot younger than people on here. I'm not gonna say my age as I don't want to be judged or known for that, but I know how kids and teens act.
I know that no one over 10 would buy this. My little sister would hate this. All my friends would think this was the most cringe thing ever. I think it's terrible.
But i think it's trying to aim for teens, but failing horribly. My sister knew what totes adorz!!!!! meant since she was 6 or 7. I think this magazine is trying to appeal to teens, but failing horribly.
They're using language I would have used in elementary school, and if you said that crap in middle school and up you'd be very cringey.
I know for a fact if any kid my age was caught genuinely reading that, they would not have a good reputation.

The best way to determine the target audience is to look at the ads, and what products are trying to be sold. I'd bet it's more like under 18, because the under 10s have no money.

[bear]

I guess I should flat out say that I'm a lot younger than people on here. I'm not gonna say my age as I don't want to be judged or known for that, but I know how kids and teens act.
I know that no one over 10 would buy this. My little sister would hate this. All my friends would think this was the most cringe thing ever. I think it's terrible.
But i think it's trying to aim for teens, but failing horribly. My sister knew what totes adorz!!!!! meant since she was 6 or 7. I think this magazine is trying to appeal to teens, but failing horribly.
They're using language I would have used in elementary school, and if you said that crap in middle school and up you'd be very cringey.
I know for a fact if any kid my age was caught genuinely reading that, they would not have a good reputation.

The best way to determine the target audience is to look at the ads, and what products are trying to be sold. I'd bet it's more like under 18, because the under 10s have no money.

The best way to determine the target audience is to look at the ads, and what products are trying to be sold. I'd bet it's more like under 18, because the under 10s have no money.[/quote]
thats true, although my parents used to buy me magazines instead. But also I bet you a few kids in my grade would buy that. With people my age, there are two groups "internet people" and "non internet people". The internet people are more mature, optinated, knowledgable and know what's good and what's cringe. The non internet people would probably buy that without any shame, so maybe that's why the target age is higher. i just went way off topic whoops
I feel like they're trying to appeal to 13-16 but are more like 9-11.
Oh and about the change, I feel it too. Like for a while I've had this vibe that after the tour a lot is gonna change in good and bad ways.

[confusedpanda]

The topics have been bouncing around a lot but I'll just give my opinion on what might happen after tour.
I feel like the whole Dan and Phil branding will stay for sure. I mean it's given them more opportunities and stuff for the both of them way more than they ever did branding separately. That being said, things like the gaming channel and yearly traditions such as PINOF and baking videos will definitely stick around. But where there's gonna be a change, it'll probably be with dinof and ap, with dinof being the biggest change.

Dan could easily axe off ISG by the end of this year and hopefully with that will come a drop in the dinof persona. Maybe we'll start to see more of Dan in the next year with side channel videos and what not. I still wonder if he's actually going to change his username to just Dan Howell after all this. It would be weird to see after all this time but hey whatever works better for him I guess.

Phil has already started to see changes, right? I mean people have been mentioning how they've felt a drop in persona in the past few videos. So it wouldn't surprise me if he drops the amazingphil persona a bit more than it is now. We won't get any opinions out of him still, but it'll be something different and not all the same thing. Maybe we'll finally get something completely out of the box from him again.

Honeslty one of my favorite things is that, people always seem to mention the possibility of them moving away from eachother after big projects are completed. To me, I always found that a bit silly when you look into all the things about them living together to begin with. Dan and Phil have both stated they don't like living alone/being alone in the house, Dan especially. Unless they have some secret lover they are planning on moving in with soon, moving out separately seems so unlikely. Relationship speculation aside, they live pretty well together and really enjoy eachothers company. Their flat looks more like a house of a small family of 2 with most of the objects in the home being shared together rather than a flat shared by people who just live together out of convenience. Speaking of shared items, (bit off topic sorry!) but does anyone remember that time Pj made some type of card game and Dan ordered a copy then said he canceled his order because he sent Phil a deck already? I don't remember it but people bring it up every now and then. But seriously, if that's true,

Back on topic, the possiblity of them moving to a bigger flat or a house together could possibly happen in the next year, especially if they want a dog. Unless of course they bought their flat and can get a dog without moving to a new place?

Honestly, who knows what's really gonna happen after tatinof. Personally, (to wrap this shit up) their branding together, most likely won't change much. But the personas of dinof and ap will. I'm honestly more interesting in what dans gonna bring with the dinof changes in the next year. And with the living situation, I feel like it won't change for the worst, but will only get more interesting and domestic.

Hopefully this made sense as it's two am where I am and sleep is needed. Also I was not expecting this post to be so damn long.

[Kathrynxjane]

Shout Magazine:
I used to love those types of magazines when I was 13-14 but this was before the Internet was a massive thing There wasn't anywhere else to get "celeb gossip" except for magazines like that.
I really don't know how magazines still make money nowadays. I can't see them selling loads. They try to appeal to the Internet age (with always having Zoe on the cover) but they really are appealing to a younger demographic than they want too.

According to her instagram he did keep them.

Haha I'm not surprised he kept them. If i was Deppy, I would only keep interesting and different presents like that. Not many people can say they have a condom with their face on

[flarequake]

I remember that about PJ's card game too (it's a Top Trumps type of thing called Fable Fights). I'd also be very surprised by them moving home, but I can imagine they'll have something new in the works creatively soon if not already. Then again they'll be needing a break so maybe they'll chill for a while, refresh and re-energise.

[annetamiau]

re: condoms. The fact that Dan kept them (and the group selfies that apparently keep taking place in Australia) makes me think that this leg of the tour will be in the book too (though I don't know if it makes any sense, considering there would only be about two months left to print it).

[blueapple_x]

re: condoms. The fact that Dan kept them (and the group selfies that apparently keep taking place in Australia) makes me think that this leg of the tour will be in the book too (though I don't know if it makes any sense, considering there would only be about two months left to print it).

Yeah I agree. I've been thinking this as well. Dan also took a pic of a girl's tattoo (idk what the tattoo was but I assume it's related to them somehow because I can't see him doing that for any other reason).

If/when there's a European tour it'll be a miracle if they can get things printed+written for that too for the book in time for a Nov 3rd release. Idk how long books usually take to print but I'm guessing they'd have to wrap up tatinof in Sept?

[yupitsme]

re: condoms. The fact that Dan kept them (and the group selfies that apparently keep taking place in Australia) makes me think that this leg of the tour will be in the book too (though I don't know if it makes any sense, considering there would only be about two months left to print it).

Yeah I agree. I've been thinking this as well. Dan also took a pic of a girl's tattoo (idk what the tattoo was but I assume it's related to them somehow because I can't see him doing that for any other reason).

Yes, it was a deppy tattoo:

[Diyes_Celine]

Thank you internet gods. DAY IN A LIFE!!!