Dan & Phil Part 22: #rubberupfordan

[eevee]

Haven't you been in the phandom a long time? Ambiguity is the name of the game

Yeah I have been haha. I can't say I'm surprised. I'm just in an impatient mood I guess!

[blueapple_x]

Oh wow there's only 3 shows left? 3 days and tatinof is over (hopefully almost entirely)! Do you think they'll hang out in Australia for a while like they did in the US or will they be back in the UK by the weekend? Would hoping for a liveshow on the 30th be overly optimistic..? I'd like Dan to shut down anything he needs to shut down and also talk about koalas pls/thx.

They may stay a few days but I don't think they'll stay too long. I don't think we'll get a ls on the 30th but it'd be nice!

[000dia000]

Oh wow there's only 3 shows left? 3 days and tatinof is over (hopefully almost entirely)! Do you think they'll hang out in Australia for a while like they did in the US or will they be back in the UK by the weekend? Would hoping for a liveshow on the 30th be overly optimistic..? I'd like Dan to shut down anything he needs to shut down and also talk about koalas pls/thx.

There's only three shows left and deppy have made no indication of a European/Asia Tour? Should we be worried
Have any detectives found any soon to be shows on any Ticket Website?

[wtfamidoinghere]

I think the nailpolish suits him and i also think it's not that big of a deal to him. I actually think the phandom preassure on this would have died down if he had very clearly said that he doesn't want to. Instead he's always just named superficial reasons why he can't be bothered, like not having nail polish remover.
Or he actually really wanted to try it, then good for him.
Maybe he's secretly thankful the phandom is giving him an "excuse" to try it, so he can say he did it for us. Not that wearing nail polish is a big thing, but some self-conscious people can get weird about the smallest things.
He's wearing all the ugly unconventional yeezy stuff though, so he probs doesn't care and i'm projecting.

If they're just friends, why would they care? I just wish they would stop screwing with us though. Pick how you want people to perceive your relationship and stick with it! Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, I'm running on about four hours of sleep.

How are they screwing with us though?

All they've done since after 2009/10 is deny phan. They call themselves besties and roommates and when asked directly they deny. They've just stopped offering that info when unwanted, possibly because the phandom didn't believe it and sometimes reacted hostile.

Anything they've done since then is only interpreted as flirtatious or "couply" by you. Just because you perceive it as that doesn't mean it's intended by them.

Okay, sorry, probably should have explained what I meant.
(Under the cut because it's quasi-off-topic)
I agree with the whole "anything they've done since then is only interpreted as flirtatious or 'couply'" thing. Pretty much everything they do platonic, but can be perceived as them being a couple. (I don't think it necessarily should though.) And D&P know there are people who are going to view things they do as "phan proof/couply". But I don't think they care. But when they do stuff like the room thing, which obviously and intentionally sends the message "Hey, look at us! We're not together!" it makes it seem like they do care. So I don't know what to think. Do they care if people think they're together? Do they not? If they do, why? When I said "screwing with us", I just meant they seem to send mixed signals on the "do they or do they not care about people thinking they're actually dating" front.

Thanks for the clarification, that makes more sense to me
Reading back my post, it sounds a little more annoyed than i meant it to and i meant it more as a comment on the phandom in general, not your post specifically, sorry. I get very passionate when i see talk about how couple and friends are supposed to act, but that's my problem

[Diyes_Celine]

When is the appropriate time to use ?
I hate Dan for painting his nails. It doesn't matter if he was pressured, was trolling or was really interested at it. People in Tumblr won't stop posting about how "blessed" they were because of this. I will never get their fascination so I will not comment on it. But they are tagging those posts and fan arts under "amazingphil" as well. I can't find a decent gif/fan art of the DITL without seeing the spam of nail polish posts. Ugh.

Can he just post the picture and get over it? But of course he wouldn't. Ugh. This guy.

Nail polish doesn't mean anything. I'll be more inclined to discuss his tweet about Frank Ocean's album. Not because of Frank's sexuality but because I like his music more than Kanye. Please replace Kanye with Frank Ocean, Dan.

[confusedpanda]

With all the changes I was thinking maybe there was an element of troll happening, just wanted to watch everyone loose their shit, for the lolz…. But I think maybe there is a plan.

Could the obvious (push) to show two rooms/we are not together also coincide with Dan’s all of a sudden heading farther into non-straight territory? I don't know if I am explaining well, but the “phan denialy” way that the DITL started the day before Dan all of a sudden goes all out? This way Dan could come out (in a sense) and not bring Phil’s walls toppling too. WE are not together, Dan is not straight, Phil is still unknown…But of course it really could be for the lolz all along…. .

Since when did painting nails have to do with sexuality?? And the whole Frank Ocean tweet was to be relatable about listening to a good album, which was pretty obvious, honestly. So how do those things have to do with Dan "suddenly headed into farther into non-straight territory"?? He's becoming comfortable with saying and doing certain things that he wouldn't have in years past, yes. That could be because of personal confidence or whatever. But it doesn't necessarily have to do with him coming out as some sexuality. He's already started he didn't wanna label anything as well. With that, he technically is already out as not straight and has been for months if not a year by now. It didnt cause Phil's walls to toppling about his sexuality just because Dan is out as not straight. No one is pressuring Phil to come out or asking about his sexuality. Most people probably never will since people seem to respect Phil's privacy and personal life way more than they do about Dan. Also I'm still failing to see how having a separate room is a denial. With that logic, Phan would've been denied and disproven completely when they moved into both flats with two bedrooms.
I don't know if this post makes sense, but it's the best I could express.

[SquishPhan]

When is the appropriate time to use ?
I hate Dan for painting his nails. It doesn't matter if he was pressured, was trolling or was really interested at it. People in Tumblr won't stop posting about how "blessed" they were because of this. I will never get their fascination so I will not comment on it. But they are tagging those posts and fan arts under "amazingphil" as well. I can't find a decent gif/fan art of the DITL without seeing the spam of nail polish posts. Ugh.

Can he just post the picture and get over it? But of course he wouldn't. Ugh. This guy.

Nail polish doesn't mean anything. I'll be more inclined to discuss his tweet about Frank Ocean's album. Not because of Frank's sexuality but because I like his music more than Kanye. Please replace Kanye with Frank Ocean, Dan.

Yes to this whole post. Thought I don't hate Dan for painting his nails

[Phantasy]

Could the obvious (push) to show two rooms/we are not together also coincide with Dan’s all of a sudden heading farther into non-straight territory? I don't know if I am explaining well, but the “phan denialy” way that the DITL started the day before Dan all of a sudden goes all out? This way Dan could come out (in a sense) and not bring Phil’s walls toppling too. WE are not together, Dan is not straight, Phil is still unknown…But of course it really could be for the lolz all along…. .

I had the same thought! Build enough support for plausible deniability, because sexuality and the true nature of their relationship are so closely linked.

Whereas Phil has never really offered any real glimpses into his closet (and frankly, short of being outed somehow, probably has no intention to), Dan has been slowly but steadily cracking open the door of his closet and letting everything spill out: Evan P., #Dick, abs and angst, furry, etc---painted nails is just another in the long list of identity fluid breadcrumbs that he's dropped.

My feeling is Dan will come out in his own way with some diatribe about his distaste for labels and society's need to fit everyone in a box, but leave Phil squarely out of it (or try to).

[alittledizzy]

Whereas Phil has never really offered any real glimpses into his closet (and frankly, short of being outed somehow, probably has no intention to), Dan has been slowly but steadily cracking open the door of his closet and letting everything spill out: Evan P., #Dick, abs and angst, furry, etc---painted nails is just another in the long list of identity fluid breadcrumbs that he's dropped.

I generally agree with the point you're making but I do think Phil has offered some glimpses into his closet. On top of responding to formspring asks about being bisexual (and never taking it back - no 'formspring is full of lies' from Phil, that was all Dan) he does mention attraction to men now and then. They're just more subtle and therefore more easily dismissed/forgotten. I mean, Zayn is basically Phil's equivalent of Evan P. He called Zayn tasty in the Agario video, waffled on in a livestream about Zayn being attractive for like thirty seconds in one go, and had a sticker of Zayn on his laptop.

To me the difference is just that Dan has decided he wants his sexuality to be part of his public identity, and Phil hasn't. That's respectable to me, and in that regard I agree that it's hard for me to imagine Phil ever publicly addressing his sexuality in a way that's designed to draw attention to it as part of his brand.

[coffeepenguin]

ok, as everyone still seems so agitated by the whole nails thing, I'll leave my two cents, too, even if I said I wouldn't. I'll be the first one to fight gender roles but let's be real, we still live in a mostly heteronormative society. So I feel like there is a big difference between men seen as effeminate (and gay and bisexual men are inherently seen as effeminate by the society, even if it's wrong, and the binary system is wrong in itself, yadda yadda) painting their nails and other men doing it. There is also a difference between men seen as effeminate and comfortable with it and those not. Like, a guy like Felix could paint his nails and it will be just seen as a sign of him being "comfortable with his gender identity/sexuality", "being progressive" and all that, it will be cool. A guy like Tyler (don't follow him much, correct me if I'm wrong) could paint his nails because he's gay and out, all his "professional fangirl" stance, it'll be written off as a "gay thing". Or someone deliberately playing with/subversing gender roles and being public about it could paint their nails and it will have nothing to do with their sexuality, because it will be a public statement on gender in society and acceptable behaviour.

However, Dan Howell, unfortunately, isn't like any of the cases above. Here's someone who, I'm sorry, has started professionally by being sexually inappropriate on the Internet for attention and continued to do so even while brushing off some of his younger self's actions as being for attention (I HATED the sexy endscreen dance, I've never been more glad to see something go from both of their channels) and basically made everything about himself about his sexuality, too (not just his sexual orientation, but in a broader sense), there are just too many examples. So yeah, now he can't escape questions about it when he's painting his nails, because, as I was saying about fanservice, it's the intent that matters. What is his intent, then? Frank Ocean, probably.

Now, Phil is completely different, because even in his "wilder" years he's never been, like, physical in expressing his sexuality as it was (see for comparison: the sexy endscreen dance vs. draw Phil naked). Basically, this:

To me the difference is just that Dan has decided he wants his sexuality to be part of his public identity, and Phil hasn't. That's respectable to me, and in that regard I agree that it's hard for me to imagine Phil ever publicly addressing his sexuality in a way that's designed to draw attention to it as part of his brand.

[grannypants]

wow, just caught up on the last few pages.
as usual I don't have anything interesting or insightful to add but I would just like to say that 2016 is turning out to be a v intriguing and exciting year to be a fan of deppy.

dan in particular seems to be becoming much more accepting of himself and is so much more open to change.
I hope one day phil becomes comfortable enough to share more with his audience.

the future looks very bright though and I'm so happy if this means dan is becoming happier in himself

[Winston]

With all the changes I was thinking maybe there was an element of troll happening, just wanted to watch everyone loose their shit, for the lolz…. But I think maybe there is a plan.

Could the obvious (push) to show two rooms/we are not together also coincide with Dan’s all of a sudden heading farther into non-straight territory? I don't know if I am explaining well, but the “phan denialy” way that the DITL started the day before Dan all of a sudden goes all out? This way Dan could come out (in a sense) and not bring Phil’s walls toppling too. WE are not together, Dan is not straight, Phil is still unknown…But of course it really could be for the lolz all along…. .

Since when did painting nails have to do with sexuality?? And the whole Frank Ocean tweet was to be relatable about listening to a good album, which was pretty obvious, honestly. So how do those things have to do with Dan "suddenly headed into farther into non-straight territory"?? He's becoming comfortable with saying and doing certain things that he wouldn't have in years past, yes. That could be because of personal confidence or whatever. But it doesn't necessarily have to do with him coming out as some sexuality. He's already started he didn't wanna label anything as well. With that, he technically is already out as not straight and has been for months if not a year by now. It didnt cause Phil's walls to toppling about his sexuality just because Dan is out as not straight. No one is pressuring Phil to come out or asking about his sexuality. Most people probably never will since people seem to respect Phil's privacy and personal life way more than they do about Dan. Also I'm still failing to see how having a separate room is a denial. With that logic, Phan would've been denied and disproven completely when they moved into both flats with two bedrooms.
I don't know if this post makes sense, but it's the best I could express.

I think you kind of missed what I was saying. I agree nails being painted is a dead issue for sexuality. I mean men have been painting them for years...I mean ozzy Osborne and Alice Cooper. Seriously I never understood the fascination with Dan painting his.

I was talking about him just being more and more comfortable in himself. Wearing that tunicy-dress thing, letting his hair down so to speak, and the comments concerning his sexuality etc. The not sharing a room thing also means nothing, it was the obvious way they set it up. To make sure we all knew they were not sharing. And that was all Phil as it was on his channel. I mean Dan played along and hey they had separate rooms so what. But it just was so forced it seemed to me a lot of others to show that. Keeping Phil safety where he always was... but Dan's actions as of late show he isn't where he was in the past. If Phil wants to stay in the closet or if he isn't even in a closet they want to make sure Dan's actions don't drag Phil along in his wake of happy self acceptance. I don't believe that if Dan came out tomorrow wrapped up on a rainbow flag or whatever flag he wants to fly that then means they are in a relationship and phil is in fact his honey bear, but a hell of a lot of people would think that. I still don't know if this is making my point or just confusing things more.

[daphenaxa]

However, Dan Howell, unfortunately, isn't like any of the cases above. Here's someone who, I'm sorry, has started professionally by being sexually inappropriate on the Internet for attention and continued to do so even while brushing off some of his younger self's actions as being for attention (I HATED the sexy endscreen dance, I've never been more glad to see something go from both of their channels) and basically made everything about himself about his sexuality, too (not just his sexual orientation, but in a broader sense), there are just too many examples. So yeah, now he can't escape questions about it when he's painting his nails, because, as I was saying about fanservice, it's the intent that matters. What is his intent, then? Frank Ocean, probably.

How did Dan make everything about himself about his sexuality?? I completely disagree with that.
And if I can agree he was mildly sexually inappropriate for attention while starting out (and mainly on dailybooth not really on youtube), I never thought of the sexy end screen dance as sexually inappropriate? or even as sexual at all tbh.

[bluewho]

in the end, it's such a trivial matter, like, it's only nails?

Yes it's only nails, but it's also not. Dan is in the public eye, if Dan paints his nails, in some small way, it sends the message that it's normal to break gender norms - or at the very least to experiment with them. The fact that so many people here seem to see it as not an example of breaking gender norms is a good sign. It's a sign that it's becoming normalized, that society is changing, it fills me with hope.

For example, if a man had painted his nails in the 1950s, do you think many people would be saying 'that's not breaking gender norms'. The fact that this is being said is a sign of progress. Progress which has been hard won by little small acts like this - by women deciding they can wear trousers, by guys deciding they can wear earrings, and yes, by guys in the public eye showing that it's acceptable and even 'cool' to paint your nails. This is even more important for guys, who still face ridicule if they leave the house in a dress, as opposed to women who have won the ability to leave the house dressed tomboy and face less ridicule.

Maybe I am being dramatic about a small and seemingly insignificant thing, but if you see it as a small act in a chain of small acts which is revolutionizing the way we see gender - maybe you will understand where I am coming from. I look forward to the day when it's not noteworthy that Dan wore nail polish, or yes high heels, because that will be the day this gender norm crap has been truly put to bed.

Have you seen his @ mentions today or the trending topics? It's all about keeping his nails painted and demanding the photo he said he'd post of them. It's just like with his natural hair.
In Dan's defense, he did start growing out his nails sometime before leaving for aus, which makes me wonder if he planned to do it there in the first place. He could've painted them regardless of nail length and people would've flipped out. But yet he chose to grow his nails out. So is it really to give the fans what they wanted in that case? Or was it just to try something new out for himself?

Personally, I don't think it's a good look on men

What about on women with large hands? What 90s television might call.. "man hands"? Is it a good look for men with small feminine hands? It's a strange thought that coloured nails could look better or worse depending on a persons gender. Is it a size thing? I don't really get it.

fancybum

Sorry for this post I speak to you from beyond the grave Viva la revolution etc, later comrades.

[rhythmicsummer]

I know that everyone's pretty much moved on from the DITL but someone pointed out the fact that Dan changed his shirt in the bathroom and I find that so weird? It's completely normal for friends to see each other naked (and he would only be shirtless) and the fact they included that makes me think that they don't really know what is normal for friends to do.

[Catallena]

late to the party but idc because my day is shit and my cat is dying who cares what these two assholes get up to.

Oh yay Dan painted his nails now the phandom is never gonna shut up about how Dan is abolishing gender roles by doing essentially nothing.

Fuck off. Bye. I'm done.

literally miss me with that praise of him ~ignoring gender norms~ when he is doing it for 15 year old girls who want it because they find it visually appealing.

[LurkingTrash]

I feel that tweet is like a leave me alone, I won't tell ypu anything and I kind of love it.

I interpret it as that plus as Dan genuinely fangirling over this guy and love it as well. Yasss, Dan.
But at the same time no LurkingTrash , it doesn't feel BIG to me. Not at all. Could you maybe explain what you mean by it? Why is it big for you?

didn't caught up with everything yet but only wanted to answer:
ehh sorry, I realized I thought it wasn't exactly what I was thinking like 2 minutes after posting it and checking twitter but then I was already in class and had no way of coming here to say it, lol.
I actually feel a lot like you guys said about it now.

[Lurktacularr]

literally miss me with that praise of him ~ignoring gender norms~ when he is doing it for 15 year old girls who want it because they find it visually appealing.

I know that everyone's pretty much moved on from the DITL but someone pointed out the fact that Dan changed his shirt in the bathroom and I find that so weird? It's completely normal for friends to see each other naked (and he would only be shirtless) and the fact they included that makes me think that they don't really know what is normal for friends to do.

I think he took his jumper off while he was in the room with Phil and went into the bathroom to 'change' [read as: walk into the bathroom to walk straight out again] because you can see his bare arm when he reaches for it off the bed at 18:04 and he'd just been in a long-sleeved jumper with nothing underneath as we could clearly tell from him rolling around on the floor shortly before.

No, I didn't watch at 0.5 to check on that, I just happened to notice idk cos I'm a fan of his hand/wrist situation choke me daddy...I'm joking

[Lucet]

Dan the pan.

[eevee]

I know that everyone's pretty much moved on from the DITL but someone pointed out the fact that Dan changed his shirt in the bathroom and I find that so weird? It's completely normal for friends to see each other naked (and he would only be shirtless) and the fact they included that makes me think that they don't really know what is normal for friends to do.

ha they probably have no idea but:

I think he took his jumper off while he was in the room with Phil and went into the bathroom to 'change' [read as: walk into the bathroom to walk straight out again] because you can see his bare arm when he reaches for it off the bed at 18:04 and he'd just been in a long-sleeved jumper with nothing underneath as we could clearly tell from him rolling around on the floor shortly before.

This is an amazingly good catch and it gives me feels, thank you so much Lurktacularr for mentioning this

Someone (can't remember who sorry) here said that Dan and Phil stage pretty much everything that happens in a DITL but this really makes me think that they didn't think about the arm thing before posting it, didn't think about Ticia's contact solution, etc. Or maybe they want to give us just enough to fuel the fire in our phan hearts either way I don't think it's all staged and I do think this was a tiny slip up. But then again, yes men get shirtless in front of each other all the time, that's fine, that's normal, but what makes me think of it as a slip up is that they were clearly trying to show us that Dan didn't get shirtless in front of Phil, and ended up failing at that when we noticed the arm thing. That's all.

[taetaewl]

I have to agree that it's a little bit weird for friends, specially flatmates of 7 years, to change clothes in the bathroom away from the other Didn't think at all about this, brownie points for catching this! lol I have to face-palm at this moment
But are you sure Dan is shirtless when he grabs for the t-shirt tho? It could be that he just have pulled his sleeves up?

[coffeepenguin]

How did Dan make everything about himself about his sexuality?? I completely disagree with that.
And if I can agree he was mildly sexually inappropriate for attention while starting out (and mainly on dailybooth not really on youtube), I never thought of the sexy end screen dance as sexually inappropriate? or even as sexual at all tbh.

ok, I think I didn't word it well, but I'm looking at the (public) videos on his main channel now, and aside from being generally awkward the only thing he's made references to in his videos is kinda sex and especially sex on the Internet? that's why I used the term "sexuality" in a broader sense. It's like he's perfectly summing up his character in the video with Louise, "awkward sexually ambiguous nerd". For example, during his first years, there were the truth or dare series and amazing dan (especially in the first one Phil saying that Dan's fans are rude and Dan answering that they're the same fans, only allowing themselves to express it on his channel), general casual rape jokes (starting with the how-to-befriend-your-favorite-internet-stars skit, thankfully, those are long dead), inappropriate winking, then, finally, several videos about fandom culture and shipping. Later, and still, we have more of a running commentary about the Internet generally being for porn and his subscribers wanting him to do sexual poses and stuff, which is also a part of the joint gaming channel. I know a lot of it is sarcasm (and the sexy end screen dance is probably mostly that, but the bit with Louise again is telling, when he's, like, it seems wrong when a girl does it), but what other topics do his videos have? but I was wrong to use "his" for sexuality, although he's exploited it in the beginning, too (here I'm taking into account the dailybooth, you're right)

what did you think about the sexy end screen dance, by the way, I'm genuinely interested?

[Lurktacularr]

I have to agree that it's a little bit weird for friends, specially flatmates of 7 years, to change clothes in the bathroom away from the other Didn't think at all about this, brownie points for catching this! lol I have to face-palm at this moment
But are you sure Dan is shirtless when he grabs for the t-shirt tho? It could be that he just have pulled his sleeves up?

I mean yeah he could have, I thought this too. But then I thought 'what's the more likely scenario for someone who's about to change shirts: having a bare arm cos they've taken the first off already, or because they've rolled their sleeve up since the last shot' and went with the former. You'll also note there are no shots of Dan in the souvenir-haul section until he's put that t-shirt on. Of course, as always, this stuff isn't hard-and-fast factual, just speculation.

I'd like to reiterate the point to anyone who might misinterpret this: I am not suggesting him being topless in front of Phil means anything. I'll quite happily change in front of my flatmate and we've only been living together for 6 months. Their insistence on portraying this somewhat unrealistic veil of modesty is what is more interesting, but even that is nothing new.

Until someone explicitly mentioned it I didn't post it because I know some people will eye roll this discussion so I just wanted to point that out.

[apathy]

If Dan just changed shirts, I would expect he went into the bathroom to rearrange his hair in the mirror before being on camera again, rather than hiding out of modesty. The "we change in private" implication may have been a side effect, or a bonus.

[anathema]

some of you overreact so much, smh... obviously dan painted his nails to stop people going on and on about it and giving him bottles of nail polish. nobody is saying he was forced or that he's a poor baby who needs protection, just that it probably gets annoying dealing with the phandom using you as a literal doll. he's a grown ass man who can tell people to stop, right? but somehow not grown enough to go buy the nail polish he apparently WANTS to use... yeah.

literally miss me with that praise of him ~ignoring gender norms~ when he is doing it for 15 year old girls who want it because they find it visually appealing.

I kind of agree that the frank ocean tweet is probably just him fanboying about frank ocean, I'm trying not to read into it too much because i'm tired of these games.

speaking of being tired, i'm tired of not knowing why dan painted his nails. i want to know why. did he give in to the pressure. did he do it because he wanted to? is he going to post on insta and clear any of this up so we can stop cat fighting? i hope so but i'm probably just going to have to accept that i won't know why he did it. i just hope he's happy. ugh.

With all the changes I was thinking maybe there was an element of troll happening, just wanted to watch everyone loose their shit, for the lolz…. But I think maybe there is a plan.

Could the obvious (push) to show two rooms/we are not together also coincide with Dan’s all of a sudden heading farther into non-straight territory? I don't know if I am explaining well, but the “phan denialy” way that the DITL started the day before Dan all of a sudden goes all out? This way Dan could come out (in a sense) and not bring Phil’s walls toppling too. WE are not together, Dan is not straight, Phil is still unknown…But of course it really could be for the lolz all along…. .

He's already started he didn't wanna label anything as well. With that, he technically is already out as not straight and has been for months if not a year by now.

Wait, when did this happen? The only thing that comes to mind is the diss track thing, but obviously that wasn't a year ago. (Besides the fact it's not actually proof he doesn't want people labeling him.)