Dan & Phil Part 45: R.I.P danisnotonfire 2009-2017

[papierklemmen]

bi as well and don't think they are together

yes, you seem very set on phil having a wife or girlfriend.

so let me ask you: do you think they're both straight? and if so, are you okay with the deliberate mentions of male attraction? because if i thought they were straight i certainly would not be.

not being together does not equal being straight, nor does having a gf or a wife.

[sugar]

bi as well and don't think they are together

yes, you seem very set on phil having a wife or girlfriend.

so let me ask you: do you think they're both straight? and if so, are you okay with the deliberate mentions of male attraction? because if i thought they were straight i certainly would not be.

not being together does not equal being straight, nor does having a gf or a wife.

i know this. as i mentioned before, i'm bisexual. i've only ever been in relationships with guys but that doesn't make me any less bisexual, so i know this. plus, i know that this person doesn't think they're together, so if i thought them being not together equaled them being straight, i'd already have my answer and wouldn't have asked.

[Grey]

and, i guess everyone interprets things differently but i would kind of see it as shipbaiting if they were to suddenly have different romantic interests. first of all, because they're definitely not discouraging shippers and i think in ways they're actually encouraging them. for example, dan naming the penguin in the club penguin video phanguin. dan's ambiguous wording about the new flat not being a forever home and 'when a house is bought' and then in his own liveshow pretty much confirming that someday he and phil will buy a place and adopt a dog. he knows exactly how these things will be interpreted and, yes, he uses vague wording a lot of the time but if they were not in a relationship i'd expect him to say something like 'oh someday when i buy my own place i'll get a dog'.

But maybe he DOES plan to get a dog with Phil?

I don't agree that buying a house and getting a dog with Phil means they're in a romantic relationship. It could mean that but not necessarily.

If he actually has no intention of getting a dog with Phil, I agree his wording was weird and suggestive of that. But I don't see any evidence that he doesn't plan to get a dog with Phil. Usually when Dan uses strange wording, it's for a reason (eg. recently when he said the painting was "being relocated"). And he certainly does seem to enjoy living with Phil, so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they actually plan to get a dog together. Which does not necessarily mean they're dating.

[sugar]

and, i guess everyone interprets things differently but i would kind of see it as shipbaiting if they were to suddenly have different romantic interests. first of all, because they're definitely not discouraging shippers and i think in ways they're actually encouraging them. for example, dan naming the penguin in the club penguin video phanguin. dan's ambiguous wording about the new flat not being a forever home and 'when a house is bought' and then in his own liveshow pretty much confirming that someday he and phil will buy a place and adopt a dog. he knows exactly how these things will be interpreted and, yes, he uses vague wording a lot of the time but if they were not in a relationship i'd expect him to say something like 'oh someday when i buy my own place i'll get a dog'.

But maybe he DOES plan to get a dog with Phil?

I don't agree that buying a house and getting a dog with Phil means they're in a romantic relationship. It could mean that but not necessarily.

If he actually has no intention of getting a dog with Phil, I agree his wording was weird and suggestive of that. But I don't see any evidence that he doesn't plan to get a dog with Phil. Usually when Dan uses strange wording, it's for a reason (eg. recently when he said the painting was "being relocated"). And he certainly does seem to enjoy living with Phil, so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they actually plan to get a dog together. Which does not necessarily mean they're dating.

fair enough!

like i said, everyone's perception is different. my perception is that even though i'm not 30, i think that if i was and i wanted a family and kids like we know phil wants, it wouldn't matter how much i enjoyed living with my friend. i probably wouldn't be making plans to move into a 4th place together and adopt a pet together which is a long term commitment. but i'm not phil. so who knows.

[VengefulBlue]

Is this a discussion or a battle to find the "correct" opinion? ... This is something that I really don't understand about western culture. Here it's assumed that what you say is only your opinion unless you use very assertive words, but it seems like in the west everything you say is assumed to be an assertion no matter what and there's no room for opinions? I really just don't get it.

pretty much. it's not an intentional sort of belief, so most people would respond no if asked, but basically yeah. it's usually presumed that unless a lot of effort is made to show you're unsure, you're expressing an idea you think is The Truth. for example, just today i said to my mother "i think maybe i might consider looking into a different college", which has 5 separate words in it to soften the base idea "i should switch colleges".

as for finding the "correct" opinion, this is often (usually?) the goal of discussions, at least in my experience. the idea that a discussion might not lead to some kind of agreement is uncomfortable, and is (in my family) the key difference between a discussion and an argument. there's also a pretty black-and-white mentality, in that most people in the west seem to believe there are correct opinions on everything, and it's important to figure out what the correct opinions are so they can act right (or something like that).

not saying any of this is right, but cultural differences are what i studied for a while, so it's interesting to me. (communication styles and social norms overlap in ways that i have never found natural, so i had to learn it 'by the book', so to speak)

edit: oh! it occurred to me that this is why people were so put-off by the idea that the cultural appropriation discussion a while ago didn't have one answer! that prevents them (us, i suppose) from sorting deppy's merch into a category (good/bad, right/wrong), and makes it unclear what the correct response is. i feel accomplished for figuring this out, i was confused before.

[papierklemmen]

bi as well and don't think they are together

yes, you seem very set on phil having a wife or girlfriend.

so let me ask you: do you think they're both straight? and if so, are you okay with the deliberate mentions of male attraction? because if i thought they were straight i certainly would not be.

not being together does not equal being straight, nor does having a gf or a wife.

i know this. as i mentioned before, i'm bisexual. i've only ever been in relationships with guys but that doesn't make me any less bisexual, so i know this. plus, i know that this person doesn't think they're together, so if i thought them being not together equaled them being straight, i'd already have my answer and wouldn't have asked.

ok.

but i don't really get what exactly you want them to do if they're not together. they've done all of the stuff you mentioned before (deny, discourage, act weird and uncomfortable around each other as not to come off couple-y, talk about "future wives") and it didn't work. at this point they can't win no matter what they do, unless it's marry each other and fulfill all of their fans' fantasies. people are rejoicing that they're being themselves, open and comfortable in 2017 but is everyone just happy because they think it means they're together? that is the question.

[kuensukki]

I made a promise to myself to always review phil videos for the sake of discourse so here goes:

I liked the new video, didn't LOVVVEEE it but watched it 3 times over just because of how nice I found those moments where Phil was genuinely bothered by the lip-smacking as well as his own personal ASMR that killed me . He has really good comedic timing in the sense that when he's doing something sarcastically, it's all the more funnier because he's almost parodying something in a straight face. It's why we all love him in the craft videos and I saw a bit of that Phil in this video so I loved it. ALSO HIS ROSE SHIRT IS BEAUTIFUL I kinda enjoy that he's taking the plunge in experimenting with fashion on his own accord. Also let me take a second to dragggg his lying ass for trying to convince me that that tiny room is his. Sorry hun, you payed all this money for "more storage", bought a fancy ass duplex in London and downgraded the size of your bed AND room nuh-uh, im on to you philly

Now all this discussion about dogs and homes. I don't think moving into a new place proves "phan" mostly due to the fact that at this point I don't think there's anything to "prove". Dan literally said in words that he plans on adopting a dog with Phil and moving to another home together, this being their 4th home and one he mentioned to last forever. I don't know how blind you got to be to think that someone who's literally planning his future with the person he's been with exclusively for 8 years plans to end it and find someone else. Like sorry, that doesn't add up to me. What I see are two guys who are happy enough to admit that they only see each other in the future and plan on raising pets and paying a mortgage together. There's no need for labels if people are uncomfortable defining them, but it's hard to argue that they see anyone else in the future but each other (yay pointless post to procrastinate studying)

now i need to figure out why EVERY deppy drought when all the phannies are happily slumbering away in domestic bliss why people bring up queerbaiting convos

[dansbonsaitree]

I'll throw my hat into the queerbaiting/ship baiting discussion. First off I'm bi and while I ship plan I am phanagnostic as to whether they are together or not. I don't really see their current actions (eg fanfic section of takin of) as ship baiting, more of acknowledging the culture of the phandom. In terms of queerbaiting if it came out that both Dan and Phil have always been 100% straight I would probably leave the phandom. At this point Dan especially has been pretty explicit in non-straightness and if that was an act for YouTube views I would be pissed.

Anyways... How bout that baby selfie? I feel like we didn't give that the time it deserved.

[llion]

i "believe" in phan, but i mostly speculate for the community of it. i find most conspiracies harmless fun, and kind of bonding, especially since i joined this site. i don't feel like they have to be together or that we deserve any sort of confirmation. i figure they have a reason for what they do and don't share, and i respect that. i also enjoy the alternate universe that is RPF, and have in many fandoms, but i understand being uncomfortable. i definitely don't condone trying to share things with or force anything upon the people being shipped.

Now all this discussion about dogs and homes. I don't think moving into a new place proves "phan" mostly due to the fact that at this point I don't think there's anything to "prove". Dan literally said in words that he plans on adopting a dog with Phil and moving to another home together, this being their 4th home and one he mentioned to last forever. I don't know how blind you got to be to think that someone who's literally planning his future with the person he's been with exclusively for 8 years plans to end it and find someone else. Like sorry, that doesn't add up to me. What I see are two guys who are happy enough to admit that they only see each other in the future and plan on raising pets and paying a mortgage together. There's no need for labels if people are uncomfortable defining them, but it's hard to argue that they see anyone else in the future but each other (yay pointless post to procrastinate studying)

now i need to figure out why EVERY deppy drought when all the phannies are happily slumbering away in domestic bliss why people bring up queerbaiting convos

i agree 100%! whether it's "romantic" or not, i think it's fairly clear how much they mean to each other at this point, and that's what i care about.

i will discuss the baby selfie! i literally squealed when i saw it, i feel like phil has to be the best with babies. lots of goofy faces and shrill noises. (no matter how many times they say he makes babies cry, i refuse to believe it. this picture is my proof).

[cocolero]

Hi.

As discussed many times before, Daniel and Phil probably did it and may still be doing it.

It is appropriate that Phil's new room is the size of a roomy closet.

I've always thought that very few of their fellow YouTubers know the answer to the question, and that speculation and shipping is just as strong inside the YouTube community as it is outside.

Bahamas Update

As a fairly seasoned traveler, here's what I can tell you from Dan's travel documents.
1) he has a UK passport, with a US Visa at the top, which has been stamped at a US port of entry and is an entertainer Visa.

2) Whomever's passport that is, they definitely got it stamped at Border Control in the Bahamas. I have the same one in mine, and, unlike most other countries (which grant visa free entry for 30 days) mine was also only valid for one day more than I was there.

3) The plane ticket seals the deal.
http://pasteboard.co/43fKOSvQN.png
As plane schedules only change 4 times a year, next Sunday's flight can be used as a direct comparison. Here is that flight's schedule info.

You'll note that not only do the times and flight numbers match, he fact that it's a Sat/Sun flight and not a daily flight is correct, and even more importantly the seat he was assigned (10A) is an exit row window seat (highest amount of legroom on the plane), and the absolute clincher: the letter Q is present both on the stub and on the flight strip, and is available for purchase (Q7 means at least 7 seats are up for sale at that fare code).

So, what does all that mean? In order to fake a ticket, the "restaurant" not only had the right time and flight info, they also bothered to pick the right seat AND had access to flight booking software (SABRE) to have picked an available fare code for that particular seat.

In short, it's absolutely real, Daniel was on that flight.

You may resume your fruitful speculations secure in the knowledge that Danny's pasty thighs did indeed grace the Island of Fyre.

[VengefulBlue]

cocolero you are my hero. finally i can rest in the knowledge that dan is a troll, but not so much as to elaborately fake a bahamas trip.

i've never flown anywhere, so this is interesting from that perspective as well

babies!: phil is great with babies, even back in 2012 when baby emily was in his liveshow he was great, and he didn't even know how to hold a baby then. baby miles is cute, i imagine dan or miles' parent took the photo. people have put him in fic, and i guess that's where i draw the line on rpf - don't write stuff with people's actual children unless it's a passing mention. it's weird when people write darcy into fics, and it's even weirder with miles, considering we don't even know who he belongs to. (or is that less creepy? )

but yes, phil with babies is my favorite thing.

[Susanisnotafish]

Hi.

As discussed many times before, Daniel and Phil probably did it and may still be doing it.

It is appropriate that Phil's new room is the size of a roomy closet.

I've always thought that very few of their fellow YouTubers know the answer to the question, and that speculation and shipping is just as strong inside the YouTube community as it is outside.

Bahamas Update

As a fairly seasoned traveler, here's what I can tell you from Dan's travel documents.
1) he has a UK passport, with a US Visa at the top, which has been stamped at a US port of entry and is an entertainer Visa.

2) Whomever's passport that is, they definitely got it stamped at Border Control in the Bahamas. I have the same one in mine, and, unlike most other countries (which grant visa free entry for 30 days) mine was also only valid for one day more than I was there.

3) The plane ticket seals the deal.
http://pasteboard.co/43fKOSvQN.png
As plane schedules only change 4 times a year, next Sunday's flight can be used as a direct comparison. Here is that flight's schedule info.

You'll note that not only do the times and flight numbers match, he fact that it's a Sat/Sun flight and not a daily flight is correct, and even more importantly the seat he was assigned (10A) is an exit row window seat (highest amount of legroom on the plane), and the absolute clincher: the letter Q is present both on the stub and on the flight strip, and is available for purchase (Q7 means at least 7 seats are up for sale at that fare code).

So, what does all that mean? In order to fake a ticket, the "restaurant" not only had the right time and flight info, they also bothered to pick the right seat AND had access to flight booking software (SABRE) to have picked an available fare code for that particular seat.

In short, it's absolutely real, Daniel was on that flight.

You may resume your fruitful speculations secure in the knowledge that Danny's pasty thighs did indeed grace the Island of Fyre.

Yay facts! I live for facts in this sea of opinions known as the phandom. But I do enjoy opinions, but get scared sometimes.

[llion]

cocolero you are my hero. finally i can rest in the knowledge that dan is a troll, but not so much as to elaborately fake a bahamas trip.

i've never flown anywhere, so this is interesting from that perspective as well

babies!: phil is great with babies, even back in 2012 when baby emily was in his liveshow he was great, and he didn't even know how to hold a baby then. baby miles is cute, i imagine dan or miles' parent took the photo. people have put him in fic, and i guess that's where i draw the line on rpf - don't write stuff with people's actual children unless it's a passing mention. it's weird when people write darcy into fics, and it's even weirder with miles, considering we don't even know who he belongs to. (or is that less creepy? )

but yes, phil with babies is my favorite thing.

the bahamas thing is so surreal to me i don't even know what's going on anymore. i just know i love hate dan.

oh yeah, i find that extermely strange. if you wanna write about dan and phil with babies, just use the picture as inspiration and nothing more. create an adorable fictional baby to fawn over. issue solved.

[sugar]

ok.

but i don't really get what exactly you want them to do if they're not together. they've done all of the stuff you mentioned before (deny, discourage, act weird and uncomfortable around each other as not to come off couple-y, talk about "future wives") and it didn't work. at this point they can't win no matter what they do, unless it's marry each other and fulfill all of their fans' fantasies. people are rejoicing that they're being themselves, open and comfortable in 2017 but is everyone just happy because they think it means they're together? that is the question.

i kind of feel like if they were continuing to regularly deny it to this day i'd probably believe them. them denying it in the past and acting more comfortable together now says to me that they were uncomfortable and not ready to be out to the world in the past, and now they know that everyone knows and they're not going to try to hide it anymore. if the denials kept up this whole time and we didn't see the "post-baking universe" and them getting closer and the increased male attraction mentions then yes, i think i'd believe them.

whether or not they're together i'm glad they're happy and more comfortable in their sexuality. but, like i said, based on my perception, if they ended up not being together i probably would feel not cool about it.

[capybantsa]

I keep changing my mind on if I believe Dan actually went to the Bahamas or not. Obviously he went. No wait, obviously it was the party room. No wait―
I feel like this was his plan all along


And honestly even though I completely think they're together, I wouldn't actually be upset if they're not. I don't know, I just don't really get that upset about shipping, even self-shipping. Maybe it's just that since practically every "relationship" in the offline entertainment industry is fake, it's lowered my expectations for online stuff too. I do still think they're together though.

I would be upset if they turned out to be straight. As big of a problem bi erasure is in the west, it's even worse over here in Asia, so it feels very personal to me when somebody fakes being bi for attention (even though I'm not bi myself )... Mr. Signed-up-for-speedos in particular would be quite upsetting, that boy drops hints like bombs

Is this a discussion or a battle to find the "correct" opinion? ... This is something that I really don't understand about western culture. Here it's assumed that what you say is only your opinion unless you use very assertive words, but it seems like in the west everything you say is assumed to be an assertion no matter what and there's no room for opinions? I really just don't get it.

pretty much. it's not an intentional sort of belief, so most people would respond no if asked, but basically yeah. it's usually presumed that unless a lot of effort is made to show you're unsure, you're expressing an idea you think is The Truth. for example, just today i said to my mother "i think maybe i might consider looking into a different college", which has 5 separate words in it to soften the base idea "i should switch colleges".

as for finding the "correct" opinion, this is often (usually?) the goal of discussions, at least in my experience. the idea that a discussion might not lead to some kind of agreement is uncomfortable, and is (in my family) the key difference between a discussion and an argument. there's also a pretty black-and-white mentality, in that most people in the west seem to believe there are correct opinions on everything, and it's important to figure out what the correct opinions are so they can act right (or something like that).

not saying any of this is right, but cultural differences are what i studied for a while, so it's interesting to me. (communication styles and social norms overlap in ways that i have never found natural, so i had to learn it 'by the book', so to speak)

edit: oh! it occurred to me that this is why people were so put-off by the idea that the cultural appropriation discussion a while ago didn't have one answer! that prevents them (us, i suppose) from sorting deppy's merch into a category (good/bad, right/wrong), and makes it unclear what the correct response is. i feel accomplished for figuring this out, i was confused before.

[offtopic]Oh that's very weird to me. Maybe I misunderstood the nuance of the word "discussion", because in my mind it's more like "formal conversation", but what you're describing makes it seem like "informal debate".

Very interesting post though! Especially the edit. I was upset that people were making very incorrect assumptions about Japan and how Japanese people would feel, but aside from that I don't really care if somebody wants to support or not support things they consider to be "cultural appropriation" because I think it's their right (kinda like free speech) as long as they're not ignoring other people's opinions, because it's not very common here to view certain people's opinions as invalid for arbitrary reasons. I was kind of shocked to see responses to me that were basically like "yeah but here's why you're wrong"... I didn't know an opinion could be wrong [/offtopic]

[dontpanic]

Re: Dan's extreme denials a few years ago regarding his sexuality
I don't know about a general consensus, but just imo I've already pretty much forgiven how he reacted. He's confirmed genuine male-attraction and has said and/or implied his past insecurities over how others perceived his masculinity. When you add that with the way he was bullied in secondary school (especially when there were things along the line of 'gaylord,' which is something he's mentioned in at least two videos I specifically remember) It is understandable that he reacted the way he did in the past. He was constantly bombarded with those "aRE yoU gAY?!?!?" questions, not just in relation to phan, so when a person has the insecurities and the negative past experiences that he did I personally don't have room to judge. I fought hard to stay in the closet before I was ready to come out...I can't imagine what it would be like to have hundreds of thousands of people forcibly dragging me out of the closet. I can't hold how he reacted against him--I might have done the same thing if I was in his situation.

So I guess my question for people who've said they wouldn't be able to be fans of deppy anymore if it turns out they're not together (which I'm not saying is wrong!)...do you find Dan's ''no homo'' actions of the past a factor not excused if phan isn't a thing? Since Dan's constant mentions of "I'm not gay" was a general denial, wouldn't his denial of phan just be part of his overall denial of his sexuality? It's kind of like the formal logic theory--Dan can be attracted to Phil if and only if he's not straight--therefor if he is straight he cannot be attracted to Phil. He would have acted the same way even if he wasn't dating Phil.

re: Phil's sexuality
couldn't the case be made that he is, in fact, straight? While I don't believe it myself, there isn't any evidence to suggest he's not. His female-attraction mentions are more specific and...idk what to call it...natural(?) compared to his male-attraction mentions, which are rather mild. A person can objectively know/comment/joke about a celebrity's attractiveness without being sexually attracted to them. I know Tom Hardy is attractive, I occasionally make jokes or comments regarding Tom Hardy's attractiveness, but that doesn't mean I'm not lesbian AF...saying that Tom Hardy raises Dunkirk's hotness scale by 10 points doesn't change that.

Re: the status of their relationship.
if Deppy weren't together and in fact were platonic, would that matter if they're still committed to having a future with each other? I venomously disagree with the thought that they're ''''''queer-baiting'''''' (which I don't believe real people can do, but that's beside the poit). Deppy have never expressed sexual or romantic interest in each other since Dan moved to Manchester. They obviously see a future together, they've made it clear they see a future together, but that's all they've done. Anything romantic between the two is completely formed by fan interpretation.

This isn't an attack or anything, I personally 99% believe in #Phan, I'm just wondering all your thoughts (if you're even able to interpret this mess of a post, I'm sorry!).



EDIT: RE: Dan's Bahama day trip
I had a weird shower daydream (do you guys get those?) where Dan went to the Bahamas because he was doing a photoshoot for Vogue's summer collection. He's tall enough to model, so my new far-fetched theory is that Danny Boi traveled to nurture his fledgling career as a model, spending the day wearing rich-person sunglasses and an outfit worth $10,000 plus while standing on a beautiful beach.

[Artdefines06]

Is this a discussion or a battle to find the "correct" opinion? ... This is something that I really don't understand about western culture. Here it's assumed that what you say is only your opinion unless you use very assertive words, but it seems like in the west everything you say is assumed to be an assertion no matter what and there's no room for opinions? I really just don't get it.

pretty much. it's not an intentional sort of belief, so most people would respond no if asked, but basically yeah. it's usually presumed that unless a lot of effort is made to show you're unsure, you're expressing an idea you think is The Truth. for example, just today i said to my mother "i think maybe i might consider looking into a different college", which has 5 separate words in it to soften the base idea "i should switch colleges".

as for finding the "correct" opinion, this is often (usually?) the goal of discussions, at least in my experience. the idea that a discussion might not lead to some kind of agreement is uncomfortable, and is (in my family) the key difference between a discussion and an argument. there's also a pretty black-and-white mentality, in that most people in the west seem to believe there are correct opinions on everything, and it's important to figure out what the correct opinions are so they can act right (or something like that).

not saying any of this is right, but cultural differences are what i studied for a while, so it's interesting to me. (communication styles and social norms overlap in ways that i have never found natural, so i had to learn it 'by the book', so to speak)

edit: oh! it occurred to me that this is why people were so put-off by the idea that the cultural appropriation discussion a while ago didn't have one answer! that prevents them (us, i suppose) from sorting deppy's merch into a category (good/bad, right/wrong), and makes it unclear what the correct response is. i feel accomplished for figuring this out, i was confused before.

^^ this.

This is because being 'right' is valued over being open and willing to debate. Part of the reason is that we are not taught speech and debate tactics until college for some stupid reason. More emphasis is put on speaking loudly and coherently than speaking logically or persuasively in pre-college public speaking assignments. You get a good grade for asserting your dominance in front of the class by not shaking like a leaf, because extroverts and pushy people are prized here and tend to get promotions and attention. I am reading a great book about this and how it all started with advertisements, but that is another story...

[dontpanic]

and, i guess everyone interprets things differently but i would kind of see it as shipbaiting if they were to suddenly have different romantic interests. first of all, because they're definitely not discouraging shippers and i think in ways they're actually encouraging them. for example, dan naming the penguin in the club penguin video phanguin. dan's ambiguous wording about the new flat not being a forever home and 'when a house is bought' and then in his own liveshow pretty much confirming that someday he and phil will buy a place and adopt a dog. he knows exactly how these things will be interpreted and, yes, he uses vague wording a lot of the time but if they were not in a relationship i'd expect him to say something like 'oh someday when i buy my own place i'll get a dog'.

But maybe he DOES plan to get a dog with Phil?

I don't agree that buying a house and getting a dog with Phil means they're in a romantic relationship. It could mean that but not necessarily.

If he actually has no intention of getting a dog with Phil, I agree his wording was weird and suggestive of that. But I don't see any evidence that he doesn't plan to get a dog with Phil. Usually when Dan uses strange wording, it's for a reason (eg. recently when he said the painting was "being relocated"). And he certainly does seem to enjoy living with Phil, so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they actually plan to get a dog together. Which does not necessarily mean they're dating.

I 100% agree with you on this! I tried to say this a few minutes ago but I couldn't figure out how to voice it.

My friend and I have a very real, serious agreement that if we're both single at 35 we'll move in together and have a child together. We love each other even though we have no sexual or romantic interest in each other, and at the same time we both want to have children but don't want to raise a child alone. This mentality isn't that unique either, especially with millenials. There's nothing to say Deppy can't have a platonic relationship while still making major life decisions (mortgage, dog, even child) together.

[Susanisnotafish]

Re: Dan's extreme denials a few years ago regarding his sexuality
I don't know about a general consensus, but just imo I've already pretty much forgiven how he reacted. He's confirmed genuine male-attraction and has said and/or implied his past insecurities over how others perceived his masculinity. When you add that with the way he was bullied in secondary school (especially when there were things along the line of 'gaylord,' which is something he's mentioned in at least two videos I specifically remember) It is understandable that he reacted the way he did in the past. He was constantly bombarded with those "aRE yoU gAY?!?!?" questions, not just in relation to phan, so when a person has the insecurities and the negative past experiences that he did I personally don't have room to judge. I fought hard to stay in the closet before I was ready to come out...I can't imagine what it would be like to have hundreds of thousands of people forcibly dragging me out of the closet. I can't hold how he reacted against him--I might have done the same thing if I was in his situation.

So I guess my question for people who've said they wouldn't be able to be fans of deppy anymore if it turns out they're not together (which I'm not saying is wrong!)...do you find Dan's ''no homo'' actions of the past a factor not excused if phan isn't a thing? Since Dan's constant mentions of "I'm not gay" was a general denial, wouldn't his denial of phan just be part of his overall denial of his sexuality? It's kind of like the formal logic theory--Dan can be attracted to Phil if and only if he's not straight--therefor if he is straight he cannot be attracted to Phil. He would have acted the same way even if he wasn't dating Phil.

re: Phil's sexuality
couldn't the case be made that he is, in fact, straight? While I don't believe it myself, there isn't any evidence to suggest he's not. His female-attraction mentions are more specific and...idk what to call it...natural(?) compared to his male-attraction mentions, which are rather mild. A person can objectively know/comment/joke about a celebrity's attractiveness without being sexually attracted to them. I know Tom Hardy is attractive, I occasionally make jokes or comments regarding Tom Hardy's attractiveness, but that doesn't mean I'm not lesbian AF...saying that Tom Hardy raises Dunkirk's hotness scale by 10 points doesn't change that.

I believe he is bi bc of a formspring answer where he said he was but that he doesn't like to label himself. Nothing has happened since to convince me otherwise. Unlike Dan, Phil has never denied being gay or bi that I know of. He has only said that voldy was a joke.

Re: the status of their relationship.
if Deppy weren't together and in fact were platonic, would that matter if they're still committed to having a future with each other? I venomously disagree with the thought that they're ''''''queer-baiting'''''' (which I don't believe real people can do, but that's beside the poit). Deppy have never expressed sexual or romantic interest in each other since Dan moved to Manchester. They obviously see a future together, they've made it clear they see a future together, but that's all they've done. Anything romantic between the two is completely formed by fan interpretation.

This isn't an attack or anything, I personally 99% believe in #Phan, I'm just wondering all your thoughts (if you're even able to interpret this mess of a post, I'm sorry!).

I don't care whether they are romantic or platonic. I like that they plan a future together. That's enough for me, especially the idea of continuing on YouTube together, or at least continuing to create together in some capacity. I do like their separate content, tho not so much Phil's latest vid. The appeal of them being romantic in my mind I guess is that it would be so romantic that they seem to be all that each other needs to be happy in all areas of life. The romantic "you are my everything." But someone mentioned fetishizing by straight women, of which I am one, so I'm considering whether this is part of their attraction to me. I will get back to you on that.

EDIT: RE: Dan's Bahama day trip
I had a weird shower daydream (do you guys get those?) where Dan went to the Bahamas because he was doing a photoshoot for Vogue's summer collection. He's tall enough to model, so my new far-fetched theory is that Danny Boi traveled to nurture his fledgling career as a model, spending the day wearing rich-person sunglasses and an outfit worth $10,000 plus while standing on a beautiful beach.

This would be so wonderful if it were true, for him and for us!

[sugar]

Re: Dan's extreme denials a few years ago regarding his sexuality
I don't know about a general consensus, but just imo I've already pretty much forgiven how he reacted. He's confirmed genuine male-attraction and has said and/or implied his past insecurities over how others perceived his masculinity. When you add that with the way he was bullied in secondary school (especially when there were things along the line of 'gaylord,' which is something he's mentioned in at least two videos I specifically remember) It is understandable that he reacted the way he did in the past. He was constantly bombarded with those "aRE yoU gAY?!?!?" questions, not just in relation to phan, so when a person has the insecurities and the negative past experiences that he did I personally don't have room to judge. I fought hard to stay in the closet before I was ready to come out...I can't imagine what it would be like to have hundreds of thousands of people forcibly dragging me out of the closet. I can't hold how he reacted against him--I might have done the same thing if I was in his situation.

So I guess my question for people who've said they wouldn't be able to be fans of deppy anymore if it turns out they're not together (which I'm not saying is wrong!)...do you find Dan's ''no homo'' actions of the past a factor not excused if phan isn't a thing? Since Dan's constant mentions of "I'm not gay" was a general denial, wouldn't his denial of phan just be part of his overall denial of his sexuality? It's kind of like the formal logic theory--Dan can be attracted to Phil if and only if he's not straight--therefor if he is straight he cannot be attracted to Phil. He would have acted the same way even if he wasn't dating Phil.

whether or not they're together, i think dan's past behavior makes total sense, as far as no homo/denying phan. dan isn't straight and his actions are those of a person who isn't ready to be out to the entire world.

re: Phil's sexuality
couldn't the case be made that he is, in fact, straight? While I don't believe it myself, there isn't any evidence to suggest he's not. His female-attraction mentions are more specific and...idk what to call it...natural(?) compared to his male-attraction mentions, which are rather mild. A person can objectively know/comment/joke about a celebrity's attractiveness without being sexually attracted to them. I know Tom Hardy is attractive, I occasionally make jokes or comments regarding Tom Hardy's attractiveness, but that doesn't mean I'm not lesbian AF...saying that Tom Hardy raises Dunkirk's hotness scale by 10 points doesn't change that.

sure, phil's mentions of male attraction are less frequent and don't feel as natural, as you said. however, i can think of a plausible explanation for it. i'm bi, but most people in my life don't know that as i never came out. my close friends know because all my close friends are gay and trans, but my family and more causal friends do not. i've also mostly dated guys in my life. because of this, commenting on men being attractive comes really natural to me. that doesn't mean i don't see just as many attractive girls, it's just that most of my life i conditioned myself to only really talk about guys that way. now i talk about girls that way, too, to the people who know i'm bi, or people that i don't mind knowing. but when i make comments about girls, i think about it. i think about it more than i do if i'm talking about a guy and i like actively acknowledge in my head that i'm talking about being attracted to girls. maybe it's the same way for phil.

i have no idea, though. i'm not saying that's why i'm just offering a potential explanation.

Re: the status of their relationship.
if Deppy weren't together and in fact were platonic, would that matter if they're still committed to having a future with each other? I venomously disagree with the thought that they're ''''''queer-baiting'''''' (which I don't believe real people can do, but that's beside the poit). Deppy have never expressed sexual or romantic interest in each other since Dan moved to Manchester. They obviously see a future together, they've made it clear they see a future together, but that's all they've done. Anything romantic between the two is completely formed by fan interpretation.

This isn't an attack or anything, I personally 99% believe in #Phan, I'm just wondering all your thoughts (if you're even able to interpret this mess of a post, I'm sorry!).

i guess if they're platonic but are close enough to want to spend the foreseeable future together and not with potential other romantic interests, sure. i guess i wouldn't feel as misled. but that just seems like a really unrealistic situation to me, personally. stranger things have happened, though, i'm sure.

edit because of your other post about your agreement with your friend:

i'm not saying that's unrealistic. i just think that they're both pretty desirable guys who could certainly find someone and dan is so young that i wouldn't see that as a realistic option for them yet. if they were both a bit older, maybe, but dan is only a few years older than i am and i know he wants kids so i assume he'd want to have a family with someone he's romantically involved with.

[malday]

Even if, let's say, they ever get married to eachother it doesn't necessarily mean they are together. It could be just for tax reasons but you can bet shippers are going to twist that into it meaning they are romantically involved somehow, romance isn't even the main reason people get married in this day and age.

Also phil has hit the big 3-o and his biological clock is ticking , so he should hurry up and find that nice girl who can cook for him he said he always wanted and pump out those babies, instead of playing house with his platonic lesbian-looking friend (did he mistake him for girl or something? i know his eyesight is bad, but Jesus!)

[SquishPhan]

Like what has been said RPF has been happening for many years and I for one have no problem with it, unless you are forcing it down someone’s throat, because that isn’t cool.

Now all this discussion about dogs and homes. I don't think moving into a new place proves "phan" mostly due to the fact that at this point I don't think there's anything to "prove". Dan literally said in words that he plans on adopting a dog with Phil and moving to another home together, this being their 4th home and one he mentioned to last forever. I don't know how blind you got to be to think that someone who's literally planning his future with the person he's been with exclusively for 8 years plans to end it and find someone else. Like sorry, that doesn't add up to me. What I see are two guys who are happy enough to admit that they only see each other in the future and plan on raising pets and paying a mortgage together. There's no need for labels if people are uncomfortable defining them, but it's hard to argue that they see anyone else in the future but each other (yay pointless post to procrastinate studying)

now i need to figure out why EVERY deppy drought when all the phannies are happily slumbering away in domestic bliss why people bring up queerbaiting convos

Totally agree with all of this.

[Susanisnotafish]

Even if, let's say, they ever get married to eachother it doesn't necessarily mean they are together. It could be just for tax reasons but you can bet shippers are going to twist that into it meaning they are romantically involved somehow, romance isn't even the main reason people get married in this day and age.

Also phil has hit the big 3-o and his biological clock is ticking , so he should hurry up and find that nice girl who can cook for him he said he always wanted and pump out those babies, instead of playing house with his platonic lesbian-looking friend (did he mistake him for girl or something? i know his eyesight is bad, but Jesus!)

[capybantsa]

Dan to me seems like he has more experience with girls but is actually more into guys. Phil seems the opposite. Phil has also always seemed more comfortable with his sexuality, but then he's always seemed more secure in himself than Dan in general.

Anybody else get this vibe/impression?

[kuensukki]

re: Phil's sexuality
couldn't the case be made that he is, in fact, straight? While I don't believe it myself, there isn't any evidence to suggest he's not. His female-attraction mentions are more specific and...idk what to call it...natural(?) compared to his male-attraction mentions, which are rather mild.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: i dont think theres anything natural about phil mentioning buffy/smg as his primary female attraction since the beginning of time....

Phil is someone who appears more internalized with his attraction. Some people don't like mentioning which stars they're attracted to their audience and that is totally okay but Phils not really the type. Seeing how he acts around guys especially people like Doug, and Joey Graceffa is more telling than him explicitly naming his celebrity crushes. Also, I think if you view the "less natural male attractions" as an argument for him being straight, you're looking at sexuality in a very black-and-white lens.

capybantsa I'd agree that Phil is more comfortable around girls as in he's more touchy and friendly than Dan who is just awkward. Watch the Carrie collab, or the Megan one, or even the Hazel one and you can see him grabbing their shoulders and being playful and touchy with them. Even in the younger AP videos with Karina and Anja you can see how comfortable and close he was with them. But in terms of who he's attracted to, the most evidence we have of real life potentials are guys which lead me to believe he was ready to date and settle with a guy in his early uni days. With women, he acts like a playful friend but with guys it's a little different. He's more conscious and aware of them which I always found interesting.