Dan & Phil Part 23: Let's just retract the fist.

[Vee]

Did Dan sound like Phil when he said "flamingos" to anyone else? Something about the delivery.

[kuensukki]

Catallena even tho I am a Deppy stan I'm able to recognize good content as opposed to average. I think deppy have feel good content that makes you happy but it doesn't blow my mind or gives me incentive to rewatch (bless it's the PHIL IS A GENIUS PART ) Honestly there's been a downhill drop in all youtubers and the content they create because people became more concerned with how to monetize their fleeting youtube fame instead of working hard to lengthen their relevance with new tags and video styles. Of course "good" is again dependent on the person and maybe people categorize deppy as good because the videos entertain and make us smile but for me it's lost it's "wow" factor.

But it really breaks my heart whenever I watch Phil's old videos. He was weird but was full of potential. He's the misunderstood crazy artist. I saw a post of him answering the question "What is your dream job?" He said director or writer. He was on the right track!!
http://amazingphilvyou.tumblr.com/post/ ... gphil-vyou
I don't know what happened. But It felt like he wasted his talent and degree especially when they started the joint branding. I know people's dreams can change. But as a fan, I was rooting for him.
Phil can still fulfill this dream once he turns 30 and retires from youtube.

Phil's content is something I grew up with and fell in love with. Even his quirky vlogs were so Phil. He's someone I always found so respectable in a youtube sense because he was weird and different but still was able to make something out of it. His old videos including his homemade movies are brilliant, hilarious and so quirky. I especially enjoy his "Awaiting the Tide" video series He can be creative and change it up a bit and I highly encourage him to but he's lazy and plays too fucking safe. He has a weird mind and although many might not get it he can still create something. He used to value Youtube as a creative outlet (the both did) but now it's all videos with Dan or AP vlogs which as great but not inspiring. I still believe Phil has the potential but he doesn't feel the need to change his formatting because he's successful with this one. I hope he reviews his content and acknowledges that it's not the greatest an hopefully works to improve it both in quality and style

[chloek88]

Dan's hoarse voice reminds me so much of younger Dan, it's quite sweet.
They shatter their phones so often, and yet while traipsing all over Hong Kong, Dan isn't using a phone case! This annoys me more than it should.
Can anyone figure out what shoes Dan's wearing at around 5:19? They look almost like black ankle boots with a wide brim?
Anyone have any idea why last time they went to HK they bumped into a ton of fans and there were loads of tweets/pics, but this time, not a word from anyone about spotting them, even with Dan clearly out and about for a whole day? Maybe it's just that they're more recognizable when together?
This video felt like a really natural hangout with Dan. Made me feel like I know him irl, for those 12 minutes. Really enjoyed it

[anathema]

But it really breaks my heart whenever I watch Phil's old videos. He was weird but was full of potential. He's the misunderstood crazy artist. I saw a post of him answering the question "What is your dream job?" He said director or writer. He was on the right track!!
http://amazingphilvyou.tumblr.com/post/ ... gphil-vyou
I don't know what happened. But It felt like he wasted his talent and degree especially when they started the joint branding. I know people's dreams can change. But as a fan, I was rooting for him.
Phil can still fulfill this dream once he turns 30 and retires from youtube.

Phil's content is something I grew up with and fell in love with. Even his quirky vlogs were so Phil. He's someone I always found so respectable in a youtube sense because he was weird and different but still was able to make something out of it. His old videos including his homemade movies are brilliant, hilarious and so quirky. I especially enjoy his "Awaiting the Tide" video series He can be creative and change it up a bit and I highly encourage him to but he's lazy and plays too fucking safe. He has a weird mind and although many might not get it he can still create something. He used to value Youtube as a creative outlet (the both did) but now it's all videos with Dan or AP vlogs which as great but not inspiring. I still believe Phil has the potential but he doesn't feel the need to change his formatting because he's successful with this one. I hope he reviews his content and acknowledges that it's not the greatest an hopefully works to improve it both in quality and style

+1. While I like Phil's content now, I truly do enjoy his older content better and I wish he still made videos like he used to. I mean, he must enjoy making quirky videos, so why did he stop? Even if he was worried about not appealing to a broad audience, I feel like he still could've found a good balance between his (dare I say generic) content now and the type of videos he produced when he first started out. *cough if only he had a side channel cough* I just don't get why he decided to ditch his old style of videos completely, unless he truly no longer enjoyed making them. And, yeah, that style of video doesn't appeal to everyone, but there are also a lot of filmy-artsy types who would love if he still made videos in his old style. (Like, my sister will watch his videos once in a while, but I guarantee if he still made his older, quirky videos she would be all over him, lmao.) Besides that, I feel like it would be nice to see how far he's come. Obviously his older videos weren't the greatest quality, so with his skill-set (and the camera quality ) now, it would be cool to see how he would make those videos now.

[tigertatze]

Catallena Honestly there's been a downhill drop in all youtubers and the content they create because people became more concerned with how to monetize their fleeting youtube fame instead of working hard to lengthen their relevance with new tags and video styles.

This! I feel like a lot of the Youtubers I enjoyed watching in the past have been slacking for a while now and their content is just not as good anymore...
I used to watch so many more channels but these days I barely keep up with a handful and it's only those where I actually care about the person not the content (like with Deppy)

In a way it feels like this panic about Youtube fame fading away and all that is kinda this self fulfilling prophecy because people will look for other stuff to do and put less effort into Youtube and thereby contributing to Youtube going downhill


On a different note that Pokemon Go vid was such a pleasant surprise I honestly didn't expect them to post another one for at least a couple weeks lol
But I'm definitely not complaining!

[spider]

Time codes

1:13 From the angle of the arm holding Phil's phone that is Phil's arm. Dan must have been almost sitting on top of him which is not a new thing.
2:14 The man in the elevator was laughing at Dan.
2:22 His commentary about his Pokemon is very quick and funny. Did he think of the jokes before or did he think of it when he was looking through his Pokemon?
6:47 'Put a shirt on.' Agreed Dan. Nobody wants to see that. It is not just about the weather like someone said. Women can't walk around without a shirt on so men shouldn't be able to either. It's for politeness.
7:07 'There you go you needy little shit.' Why does Daniel have to flirt when Phil is not even in the video?
11:14 'I got moist for you Phil. Tell me you like it.' 'I love it.'
11:33 'Do you want to share my Farfetchd?' 'That is not the same.' 'You can have custody of it' 'I don't care.' 'You can have weekends.' 'That's not how the Pokedex works!'
11:56 'There's one over there. Trolled.' 'I'm going to kill you.' Hate when couples have pda. They have no respect for other people.

And
11:39 The preview for Impossible Quiz is the cute part where they shook each other like other people mentioned. Nice phan clickbait boys.

If you like long replies this is a treat for you. If you don't like long replies that is too bad for you.

2.34 "Consent that's important" did....did he literally call it that just so he could eventually say that in a DAPG video?

The Pokemon makes a suggestive movement with its hands so it was probably a sexual joke based on the Pokemon and not just for the video.

About the beds and all - I have a crazy idea. What if they just film whatever the situation is at the time because they stopped caring about what we think about their relationship a while ago? There is seriously no way to make us all happy all the time, so the simplest solution is to just not stress over it lol.

They said a lot of times that they're control freaks. Don't believe for a half a second that they stopped caring.

But I love it and I could point out a ton of stuff about their content that I like still but the thing about youtube is that people are more attracted by personalities than content, content is good but it takes a second place inside a fandom, once you're in (attracted inside by said content might I add) you will want to discuss other things, like, if I want to talk about their content I'll most likely leave it as a praise/comment on their vídeos or tweet at them, not much to discuss besides stating what I like/dislike, what I want to discuss with people that love them like me is things like bedgate and analyzing the way they talk and behave by themselves or with each other.

I do have to remove myself from phandom thinking and reacting to think about their content in an objective way, it's a difficult thing to do when I'm so used to react to specific things to then look at the rest of them but when I do it I still think their content is good, well planed and thought out (at least imo) but that's were it ends, 'imo' isn't it? Content analyzing has a lot to do with either personal views and opinions or comparing it to another creators.

The 1st bold part is a contradiction for the 2nd part. There isn't such a thing as judging content objectively. Someone who is not a fan judges the content with ignorance about the creator and a fan judges the content with bias for the creator. For Deppy a non fan could think they're two attractive white guys with accents who draw cat whiskers but the non fan doesn't know how they engaged their audience many different ways so people love them for their personalities. A fan could think they're interesting and good people who care about their audience but the fan ignores that some of their content is lazy.

There isn't a right or wrong way to judge Deppy's content. There are only different ways to judge.

But it really breaks my heart whenever I watch Phil's old videos. He was weird but was full of potential. He's the misunderstood crazy artist. I saw a post of him answering the question "What is your dream job?" He said director or writer. He was on the right track!!
http://amazingphilvyou.tumblr.com/post/ ... gphil-vyou
I don't know what happened. But It felt like he wasted his talent and degree especially when they started the joint branding. I know people's dreams can change. But as a fan, I was rooting for him.
Phil can still fulfill this dream once he turns 30 and retires from youtube.

He can be creative and change it up a bit and I highly encourage him to but he's lazy and plays too fucking safe. He has a weird mind and although many might not get it he can still create something. He used to value Youtube as a creative outlet (the both did) but now it's all videos with Dan or AP vlogs which as great but not inspiring. I still believe Phil has the potential but he doesn't feel the need to change his formatting because he's successful with this one. I hope he reviews his content and acknowledges that it's not the greatest an hopefully works to improve it both in quality and style

+1. While I like Phil's content now, I truly do enjoy his older content better and I wish he still made videos like he used to. I mean, he must enjoy making quirky videos, so why did he stop? Even if he was worried about not appealing to a broad audience, I feel like he still could've found a good balance between his (dare I say generic) content now and the type of videos he produced when he first started out. *cough if only he had a side channel cough* I just don't get why he decided to ditch his old style of videos completely, unless he truly no longer enjoyed making them. And, yeah, that style of video doesn't appeal to everyone, but there are also a lot of filmy-artsy types who would love if he still made videos in his old style.

9.17 It's funny that Dan thinks Phil should be an instinct, which is treated like the Hufflepuff of the Pokemon Go Teams, while Phil is already a Hufflepuff and Dan also as I quote said that it was "cute". I remember in an older video Phil was disappointed by being placed as a Hufflepuff and was repulsed by the idea of being Instinct in the last video. Is Phil ashamed of his cinnamon bun angel bean nature? Controversial At least Dan can step up and defend the Hufflepuff and Instinct Teams! Phil, be true to yourself!

Interesting that Phil could be ashamed of being Hufflepuff and Instinct.
TATINOF spoiler

During the ending Dil tells Phil he shouldn't try to change because people like him for who he is. It was one of the 'serious' parts of TATINOF and it probably came from something Phil thinks about himself.

Phil also changing his content to be more safe could be because he doesn't like his quirkiness or weirdness and is afraid other people will not like it too. Not just for his content but his personality and who he is. Having less quirky content is less personal for him so it gives him distance between his work and his real self. In case people don't like it it's not the real him so it doesn't hurt as much.

In the Impossible Game he showed he thinks really differently and in a creative unique way. He could be not comfortable showing the different way he thinks to an audience who is used to their tall angel cinnamon bean roll or whatever terrible word combination the kids are calling him now.

[akui]

I'm just thanking lord that we can talk about this. It's very refreshing that we can break out from their constant "bisexual and heteronorm" discussion. I agree what you guys said, kuensukki and Catallena .

dizzy and lurking, while i do agree that what deppy make us feel is a very subjective matter, i have to disagree that there isn't a way that we can objectively decide whether a content is good or not. Because there is, there is a general consensus that things have been put more effort into are good, things that are well-liked are good, and things that has significant meanings are good. The first one we can objectively measure, the second one is difficult to tell since most of the phandom are giving them unconditional love and most outsiders are too afraid to give them any honest critique, and the third one has basically nothing to do with most youtube videos so let's just talk about the first one.

The truth is, compare to what they used to do, nowadays they unarguably put way less effort into their videos, remember idb went crazy for the dinof's anime video and think that he's back to his glorious sketchy self? And then what happened? A storytime video, a seasonal video, a freaking tag and another goddamn isg, not saying they are all bad, but compare to what he use to do, they are way lacking in creativity and effort. For AP it's even worse, it was collab after collab after collab, laziness upon laziness upon laziness! Don't even think about compare them to old quirky AP short films, they can't even compare to regular AP vlog videos. To me it seems like now they just do cheap tricks to pander their fanbase, feeding them mindlessly with what they want.

I also find that the quality of youtube videos in general is suffering, that's because once the youtubers find a formula that is working, they are more likely to stick to it, keep doing it until it doesn't work anymore. It's capitalism. I understand. But isn't that exactly what Dan and Phil is not about? They were supposed to be different, to be better, to be non conforming, however now they are just like everybody, just like a random vlogger, a gleamer, just another pair of pretty british boys.

I was never into the vlogger/web celeb side of the youtube, i'm literally too old for most of them, but deppy was different and special, that's why i like them, now they are becoming more and more mediocre, just like other vloggers, which makes me feel very very disappointed. I sincerely hope that this is just a temporary thing due to their busy schedule, and they will back to working hard on youtube once the tour is over.

[Amelie]

Firstly, I really enjoyed the latest video. I especially appreciated Dan’s commentary on seemingly everything, my personal favourite part being "you're not the bird I want" I'm also always up for a cute domestic video

With regards to quality of content I kind of just see it as being the effects of growing up. When were teenagers/young adults they were sillier and more open, and now they are older they are a bit more conscious about not how they are perceived. This could also relate to the fact that there are now a lot more people watching their videos, so it’s entirely likely that they feel a lot more self-conscious about experimenting with more creative ideas/more quirkiness as this could alienate more casual fans.

[peekatyou]

Hello everyone That's my first post here, I probably should've introduced myself in another thread first but I can't think of a good way to do it at the moment? So please forgive me. Anyway, I wanted to add my two cents to the topic of Phil's creativity real quick. I was/am so fascinated by Phil's early videos that I actually sat with my camera to reenact some of his quirky stuff, now if somebody finds it on my computer I'll definitely get some funny looks and questions, but I don't care, the fun of making it was totally worth it. I really wish Phil'd go back at it. As many of you, I feel he has a huge creative potential, and it's such a shame if he just keeps it to himself (and for Dan to witness on a day-to-day basis.) I know he's playing safe nowadays, but maybe when he's out of the limelight he'll be able to turn this 'unique creativity' mode on again, if he feels like it, obviously. If it's still there. I don't know. He's a good presenter but man do I wish to see him as a director or smth like that.

[dropbearphil]

Dan bought a lot of medicine for just a cold (and rash cream?) which makes me think that Phil wasn't really the one who asked for meds and it was rather Dan who made it look like Phil asked for them but he actually bought them because he wanted to.
Or maybe it's because Phil has also gotten pneumonia and that's why Dan bought so much stuff but I surely hope that's not it.
(also: hi!)

[akui]

Dan bought a lot of medicine for just a cold (and rash cream?) which makes me think that Phil wasn't really the one who asked for meds and it was rather Dan who made it look like Phil asked for them but he actually bought them because he wanted to.
Or maybe it's because Phil has also gotten pneumonia and that's why Dan bought so much stuff but I surely hope that's not it.
(also: hi!)

I guess the blue stuff is the real cold medicine, the syrup is just for coughing and make you feel better tbh, it doesn't do much. But of course a good boyfriend like Dan would buy sweet syrup for a sweet tooth like Phil

[swofro]

Look who's late for everything again! 4 pages to catch up on, nice bants!!

First of all, I have to conclude that I need to go out and have life more often because Deppy always upload when I am actually doing something in life. Three times in a row. DITLAustralia, The Impossible Quiz and PokeGo#3

My late reaction:


I love that video! I am a bit sceptical at the opening when Dan leave Phil and imply that the video will be a solo vid because we haven't had solo gaming in a long time and I am not sure what to expect. Congrats akui (I think) that your wish for solo gaming comes true!!

Fav parts:

-Dan wearing that thing in a hot and humid weather. Dude, I never wear a hoodie when the temp is not under 30C. Why are you like this?

-Phil should be in Instinct. I support wholeheartedly. And that's not only because I am an Instinct myself. AmazingPhil's character (lol avoiding the p word) really suits Instinct stereotype, the angel bean who are too pure for this world, love all pokemon equally and all pokemon love them. But there's always a choice, the sorting hat give the power to choose, so Phil should be in Mystic until he don't want to be amymore

-Dan being so fond after buying the medicine.

-The 'Phil Lester! You're a genius!' clip at the end. Just stab me in the heart already

Also agree to whoever says that Dan is shock at the tall flat building is weird but now that I think about it, I never see a tall flats in UK, lol. But srsly, how is there enough house for everyone if you have none of those?

[koalaselfie]

Everyone's already mentioned my fave moments in the new PokemonGO video!
However, I haven't seen this mentioned: at the very end, at 11.26, when Dan lists "getting drugs for my dying friend," (I know I'm severely reaching at this point, lol), his intonation and emphasis really sounded 'off' to me on the word 'friend'...like there needed to be an extra syllable...coughs 'boyfriend' cough
I loved having a solo gaming vid; it felt a lot like a 'hang out with Dan' and very natural. Lots of nice angles too.
I also have to say, for somebody as openly self-conscious or awkward as Dan claims himself to be, he really had no (visible anyway) qualms about vlogging and talking to himself in public / buying medicines in a non-English-speaking country etc. I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little jealous (social anxiety plagues me greatly), but then I guess he's got a somewhat 'public' lifestyle with his career so his confidence has likely been boosting over time by that.
I was a bit iffy about the whole 'drama-queen' attitude - I guess I don't find it particularly funny or w/e - but the only parts that it wasn't at least bearable for me were the exact moments when Dan points out people's fashion choices (the leggings and shirtless guy parts) which just seemed unnecessary comments imo. Let people live, Danyul! Their choices don't affect you!

Apart from those moments, really liked the video! Rewatchable for sure.

On #bedroomgate, I thought the scenes at beginning and end were super sweet. I would push my bed apart tbh, if my room-sharer (lol) was as sick as Phil seems. Ain't about those germs.

SW making my day again -- as Dan said in a liveshow once, his username is really inaccurate, I find his paintings great!

[uglyamerican]

I thought Dan's (wandering in) HK Pokemon video was pretty entertaining. Lots of sass, observations, casual f-bombs, inappropriate clothing, perspiration and hair gone native. He plays closer to his real wise-ass self in this video, and not a persona. I likey. Also appreciate the snappy editing and exaggerated camera moves (and the difficulty of filming with one hand while playing the game with the other - ambidextrous Dan.

#nipplegate: OK, this is the second time he fessed-up to changing out of a (white?) t-shirt because his nipples were showing... A/C the first time, and extreme heat and humidity this time? Hmmm, seems to be a sensitive area...

Re: iPhone: I like to keep my iPhone naked. One pays a premium for the design aspects of an IPhone, so it should not be covered up in some cheesy case - it might as well be a Galaxy... (full disclosure: I've smashed my fair share of screens, and my current iPhone has the battle scars to prove it. Or maybe I should say "patina."

[phamnotof]

I'm just thanking lord that we can talk about this. It's very refreshing that we can break out from their constant "bisexual and heteronorm" discussion. I agree what you guys said, kuensukki and Catallena .

dizzy and lurking, while i do agree that what deppy make us feel is a very subjective matter, i have to disagree that there isn't a way that we can objectively decide whether a content is good or not. Because there is, there is a general consensus that things have been put more effort into are good, things that are well-liked are good, and things that has significant meanings are good. The first one we can objectively measure, the second one is difficult to tell since most of the phandom are giving them unconditional love and most outsiders are too afraid to give them any honest critique, and the third one has basically nothing to do with most youtube videos so let's just talk about the first one.

The truth is, compare to what they used to do, nowadays they unarguably put way less effort into their videos, remember idb went crazy for the dinof's anime video and think that he's back to his glorious sketchy self? And then what happened? A storytime video, a seasonal video, a freaking tag and another goddamn isg, not saying they are all bad, but compare to what he use to do, they are way lacking in creativity and effort. For AP it's even worse, it was collab after collab after collab, laziness upon laziness upon laziness! Don't even think about compare them to old quirky AP short films, they can't even compare to regular AP vlog videos. To me it seems like now they just do cheap tricks to pander their fanbase, feeding them mindlessly with what they want.

I also find that the quality of youtube videos in general is suffering, that's because once the youtubers find a formula that is working, they are more likely to stick to it, keep doing it until it doesn't work anymore. It's capitalism. I understand. But isn't that exactly what Dan and Phil is not about? They were supposed to be different, to be better, to be non conforming, however now they are just like everybody, just like a random vlogger, a gleamer, just another pair of pretty british boys.

I was never into the vlogger/web celeb side of the youtube, i'm literally too old for most of them, but deppy was different and special, that's why i like them, now they are becoming more and more mediocre, just like other vloggers, which makes me feel very very disappointed. I sincerely hope that this is just a temporary thing due to their busy schedule, and they will back to working hard on youtube once the tour is over.

I feel like I only log on here to disagree with people these days, which I'm sorry about, I have buckets of positivity to share about their gaming channel for later – but first things first.

So, to break it down and go witht your theory for a bit, your point is that things are objectively good if there was 1) effort put in 2) they're well-liked 3) have significant meanings. So let's look at 2016.

1) Effort. What needs to be considered here is that D&P are quite objectively branding themselves as a duo these days. They help each other even on individual videos, have a joint channel, an are frequent guests on each other's. They've uploaded 23 gaming videos this year, 9 dinof videos & 12 AP videos. That makes 44 videos in 8 months, so on avarage, more than a video a week. That's not an unusual for most YTers who don't daily vlog & does not feel exactly lazy even for creators who haven't gone on an international tour.

(I'm not saying they handled the US great, but I greatly appreciate they seem to have learned from it during the Australia leg & feel like they deserve credit for that.)

Now, sure, some of you signed up for separate creators who sometimes collaborate, not a professional duo, but making a choice to join their brands together was theirs and choosing to keep up with them is yours. I, for one, am glad they did it, and think it's benefiting their work & success.

As far as effort put into individual videos goes, you say mention Dan's anime video followed by a "storytime video, a seasonal video, a freaking tag and another goddamn isg" as examples of low effort put in. Personally, I hardly think all of these were masterpieces, I for one hated the last ISG, but - his Memes video was pretty high effort (collecting things all over the internet, taking care to credit people properly, and the format he chose for it - that editing's not lazy, with all those annotations and pop ups). Next up, he put out a react video, which definitely is an easy format & just something cutesy for people to enjoy. The US tour trailer did include a sketch, though I'm not sure promo counts as content. ISG is standard medium-effort thing in my booksAnime had variou sketches and showed time was put into it. Mealtime was story time and easy to waffle out, making it will take a while, but the creative input is not huge. But I will say, keeping an audience interested for 30 minutes while you babble on takes both effort and skill in my books. Exams vid was an easy idea, but full of sketches and definitely had effort put in esp. considering it was all done while on tour. The Roast might have been a tag, but putting together a rap & managing to produce it in a way people enjoy when it's so far out of your comfort zone is neither easy nor lazy. And then another ISG.


With Phil, you describe “was collab after collab after collab, laziness upon laziness upon laziness“. Now, yes, Phil does a lot of collabs. I personally love his collabs, I think he puts a lot of creativity into them rather than using random things from around YT people grab for anytime they need a quick collab idea (his future quiz with PJ was hilarious & creative as fuck, you can't go wrong with laughing with Dan on a bed like happy children – cause hey, entertaining people and making them smile is an art in itself as far as I'm considered -, his Hazel collab was a smart way to promote the tour while doing something new where they could have easily just chatter about the US together, the past life animal quiz was something never done on YT before and it was, once again, done with some pretty thorough pre-planning, as IDB detectives have discovered since.) I find his stories entirely delightful & in no way lacking to his old videos because I relate to him as a person more now than before, which just goes to prove that it's difficult to judge quality there objectively, too.

Generally, that makes it like 50/50 higher effort/easier filler content. Which is not the most effort on the whole of YouTube, but it's also not desperately running around the house to find the grossest things possible you can put a 100 layers of on around the house & then reading your old journal every other week only to once again discover that you were the most boring teenager in all of human history.

So, my point is that – I feel like nostalgia is this weird liar that leads us to imagining the past as a post card rather than a messy reality. The past was not that glamorous, and the presence is not that tragic. I personally prefer their now tenfold, even if I do have issues with their unpredictable schedule, tendencies to go off the map occasionally, and lying where they could have easily avoided the subject altogether & spared us all the charade.

Overall, I think they're not the very hardest working people on YT, but they're hardly middle ground of just doing the bare minimum, either. They've managed to keep people interested for so long and their channels continue to grow steadily in a way that the numbers do almost speak for themselves, too, which brings me to your two other points, which I do not feel should be dismissed so quickly.

2) They're well-liked was your another quality signifier. And fucking hell if their videos aren't well liked. They've managed to foster both an unusually high GA in a very unusually long term as well as an unusually large dedicated fandom that loves them & feels a personal connection with them. Community building is a skill & takes both dedication and effort & it should in no way be waved off as nothing.

3) The last point you made was the videos should have significant meaning to be considered quality. You think that has “nothing to do with most youtube videos”, but I'd disagree here, too. They mean something significant to me. I care about them, I feel a connection with them, they entertain me and provide me a lot of light and hope when I feel down. That is fucking significant in my books, and again, just because that looks effortless and easy – that does not make it so. Entertainment is a skill. Making people smile takes work. Even if it's the fluffiest content you can picture – it does not make itself, and my bar is high enough that I don't buy it as genuine from most people, so that makes me view them as above average performers, too.

I will also, to end on cause I feel like I've been typing for far too long, end on the fact that I'm not trying to take your opinion away or say you're wrong for thinking so, I'm just saying that it indeed is rather subjective in most cases. For one, I don't enjoy a lot of their early content as much as I do their later one, I find SAP to be most boring thing to sit through, for example. And while I'm not sure that D&P ever set out to be “different, to be better, to be non conforming” - I do think they set themselves apart from most creators in a lot of ways that are significant to me personally. But if you wanna be a part of a niché thing, you're not going to get that when you're watching content put out for millions of people.

YT has a lot of small creators to offer, too, and they do weird things cause the size of their audience allows them to. I'd argue that most would switch places with D&P in a heartbeat, but that's not to say that a huge audience and success makes ALL of creativity better. Some things, yes, and some things, the opposite. That's the case with pretty much everything, and that's not about them selling out or losing interest, it's just a side effect of growth and change.

[dropbearphil]

I was kind of expecting the video to be slightly awkward, what with Dan having to film and catch pokemon at the same time, but I was pleasantly surprised!
Also, I appreciate Dan admitting that Phil's more of a team instinct kind of guy, I was actually kind of disappointed in the last video when Phil chose mystic (even though i'm team mystic myself...), his personality is just so adorable!

[Catallena]

As far as effort put into individual videos goes, you say mention Dan's anime video followed by a "storytime video, a seasonal video, a freaking tag and another goddamn isg" as examples of low effort put in. Personally, I hardly think all of these were masterpieces, I for one hated the last ISG, but - his Memes video was pretty high effort (collecting things all over the internet, taking care to credit people properly, and the format he chose for it - that editing's not lazy, with all those annotations and pop ups). Next up, he put out a react video, which definitely is an easy format & just something cutesy for people to enjoy. The US tour trailer did include a sketch, though I'm not sure promo counts as content. ISG is standard medium-effort thing in my booksAnime had variou sketches and showed time was put into it. Mealtime was story time and easy to waffle out, making it will take a while, but the creative input is not huge. But I will say, keeping an audience interested for 30 minutes while you babble on takes both effort and skill in my books. Exams vid was an easy idea, but full of sketches and definitely had effort put in esp. considering it was all done while on tour. The Roast might have been a tag, but putting together a rap & managing to produce it in a way people enjoy when it's so far out of your comfort zone is neither easy nor lazy. And then another ISG.

Not to be a bitch here, but this is exactly what I mean when I say that the phandom hypes up every fart they let out and. I'm ignoring any opinions about video subjects here because whether you like them or not is very subjective. But rn you're praising them (or Dan in this case) for doing a decent job editing, putting in annotations, collecting material like memes that the phandom literally hands to them, crediting the people that made those and just not being complete shit at what they do... If that isn't exactly what the bare minimum is, then I don't know anymore.

[phamnotof]

Not to be a bitch here, but this is exactly what I mean when I say that the phandom hypes up every fart they let out and. I'm ignoring any opinions about video subjects here because whether you like them or not is very subjective. But rn you're praising them (or Dan in this case) for doing a decent job editing, putting in annotations, collecting material like memes that the phandom literally hands to them, crediting the people that made those and just not being complete shit at what they do... If that isn't exactly what the bare minimum is, then I don't know anymore.

It's hard to have a discussion about this since you chose one small point I made out of an over 1k words post. I mean, hey, the fart joke was funny, kudos on the fart joke (I actually did laugh), but it can be a bit frustrating when you choose to respond to this one thing that was very much a detail used to illustrate a larger point. I mean, yeah, I do think the Memes video was higher effort than most YT Gleamer-esque videos cause of the effort that went in and the idea. I'm just saying it's not exactly comparable to doing am 8th Q&A this year. So with you taking it out of context, yeah, I might sound like a silly person praising them for doing something rather ordinary, but I do think it might be worth putting them in context of other creators if we wanna talk about the effor they put into individual videos.

As someone who watches a lot of YT, I do think their editing is higher quality than usual, and I also know that a hella lot of YTers don't give a flying fuck about crediting people, and going through thousands of messages of material "handed to them" sounds like a headache to me. Not saying we should kiss their pasty asses for that, but as I said, that was a minor detail used to illustrate a larger point, so it's hard to talk about out of context.

[arequian]

I haven't seen this mentioned: at the very end, at 11.26, when Dan lists "getting drugs for my dying friend," (I know I'm severely reaching at this point, lol), his intonation and emphasis really sounded 'off' to me on the word 'friend'...like there needed to be an extra syllable...coughs 'boyfriend' cough

I noticed the same thing when I was watching. Anyone else?

[SquishPhan]

I feel like I only log on here to disagree with people these days, which I'm sorry about, I have buckets of positivity to share about their gaming channel for later – but first things first.

So, to break it down and go witht your theory for a bit, your point is that things are objectively good if there was 1) effort put in 2) they're well-liked 3) have significant meanings. So let's look at 2016.

1) Effort. What needs to be considered here is that D&P are quite objectively branding themselves as a duo these days. They help each other even on individual videos, have a joint channel, an are frequent guests on each other's. They've uploaded 23 gaming videos this year, 9 dinof videos & 12 AP videos. That makes 44 videos in 8 months, so on avarage, more than a video a week. That's not an unusual for most YTers who don't daily vlog & does not feel exactly lazy even for creators who haven't gone on an international tour.

(I'm not saying they handled the US great, but I greatly appreciate they seem to have learned from it during the Australia leg & feel like they deserve credit for that.)

Now, sure, some of you signed up for separate creators who sometimes collaborate, not a professional duo, but making a choice to join their brands together was theirs and choosing to keep up with them is yours. I, for one, am glad they did it, and think it's benefiting their work & success.

As far as effort put into individual videos goes, you say mention Dan's anime video followed by a "storytime video, a seasonal video, a freaking tag and another goddamn isg" as examples of low effort put in. Personally, I hardly think all of these were masterpieces, I for one hated the last ISG, but - his Memes video was pretty high effort (collecting things all over the internet, taking care to credit people properly, and the format he chose for it - that editing's not lazy, with all those annotations and pop ups). Next up, he put out a react video, which definitely is an easy format & just something cutesy for people to enjoy. The US tour trailer did include a sketch, though I'm not sure promo counts as content. ISG is standard medium-effort thing in my booksAnime had variou sketches and showed time was put into it. Mealtime was story time and easy to waffle out, making it will take a while, but the creative input is not huge. But I will say, keeping an audience interested for 30 minutes while you babble on takes both effort and skill in my books. Exams vid was an easy idea, but full of sketches and definitely had effort put in esp. considering it was all done while on tour. The Roast might have been a tag, but putting together a rap & managing to produce it in a way people enjoy when it's so far out of your comfort zone is neither easy nor lazy. And then another ISG.


With Phil, you describe “was collab after collab after collab, laziness upon laziness upon laziness“. Now, yes, Phil does a lot of collabs. I personally love his collabs, I think he puts a lot of creativity into them rather than using random things from around YT people grab for anytime they need a quick collab idea (his future quiz with PJ was hilarious & creative as fuck, you can't go wrong with laughing with Dan on a bed like happy children – cause hey, entertaining people and making them smile is an art in itself as far as I'm considered -, his Hazel collab was a smart way to promote the tour while doing something new where they could have easily just chatter about the US together, the past life animal quiz was something never done on YT before and it was, once again, done with some pretty thorough pre-planning, as IDB detectives have discovered since.) I find his stories entirely delightful & in no way lacking to his old videos because I relate to him as a person more now than before, which just goes to prove that it's difficult to judge quality there objectively, too.

Generally, that makes it like 50/50 higher effort/easier filler content. Which is not the most effort on the whole of YouTube, but it's also not desperately running around the house to find the grossest things possible you can put a 100 layers of on around the house & then reading your old journal every other week only to once again discover that you were the most boring teenager in all of human history.

So, my point is that – I feel like nostalgia is this weird liar that leads us to imagining the past as a post card rather than a messy reality. The past was not that glamorous, and the presence is not that tragic. I personally prefer their now tenfold, even if I do have issues with their unpredictable schedule, tendencies to go off the map occasionally, and lying where they could have easily avoided the subject altogether & spared us all the charade.

Overall, I think they're not the very hardest working people on YT, but they're hardly middle ground of just doing the bare minimum, either. They've managed to keep people interested for so long and their channels continue to grow steadily in a way that the numbers do almost speak for themselves, too, which brings me to your two other points, which I do not feel should be dismissed so quickly.

2) They're well-liked was your another quality signifier. And fucking hell if their videos aren't well liked. They've managed to foster both an unusually high GA in a very unusually long term as well as an unusually large dedicated fandom that loves them & feels a personal connection with them. Community building is a skill & takes both dedication and effort & it should in no way be waved off as nothing.

3) The last point you made was the videos should have significant meaning to be considered quality. You think that has “nothing to do with most youtube videos”, but I'd disagree here, too. They mean something significant to me. I care about them, I feel a connection with them, they entertain me and provide me a lot of light and hope when I feel down. That is fucking significant in my books, and again, just because that looks effortless and easy – that does not make it so. Entertainment is a skill. Making people smile takes work. Even if it's the fluffiest content you can picture – it does not make itself, and my bar is high enough that I don't buy it as genuine from most people, so that makes me view them as above average performers, too.

I will also, to end on cause I feel like I've been typing for far too long, end on the fact that I'm not trying to take your opinion away or say you're wrong for thinking so, I'm just saying that it indeed is rather subjective in most cases. For one, I don't enjoy a lot of their early content as much as I do their later one, I find SAP to be most boring thing to sit through, for example. And while I'm not sure that D&P ever set out to be “different, to be better, to be non conforming” - I do think they set themselves apart from most creators in a lot of ways that are significant to me personally. But if you wanna be a part of a niché thing, you're not going to get that when you're watching content put out for millions of people.

YT has a lot of small creators to offer, too, and they do weird things cause the size of their audience allows them to. I'd argue that most would switch places with D&P in a heartbeat, but that's not to say that a huge audience and success makes ALL of creativity better. Some things, yes, and some things, the opposite. That's the case with pretty much everything, and that's not about them selling out or losing interest, it's just a side effect of growth and change.

I've been a fan of for about a year and a half now, and I've obviously went back and watched all their old stuff, and I don't really see a drop in quality.
While I like them and yes am interested in their relationship, I also genuinely like their content and often rewatch their vids.

[anathema]

Akui and Phamnotof, I think you both make good points. Personally, I feel like recently their content has not been up to par with some of their older videos (and while it's kind of annoying, also somewhat understandable), but I also don't think it's been complete shit either (not implying either of you said that btw). Even when their content is mediocre for them, I think it's still on the same level (if not better) than other popular YouTubers.

[Rigby]

Just came here to make an annoying observation: I found it funny that in the video Dan says "it's LITERALLY 30°C" and the screen on his phone shows it's 29°C

[akui]

phamnotof, i was gonna sleep but, OKAY.

First of all i was not at all complaining about the volume of their videos, so that's that.

You have to understand that there is a difference between effort and skill, for Dan and Phil, they are pretty good youtubers, they have the skill, the charms that's needed for them to be successful, but that's not all, even a genius needs to work hard. So what i am focusing on, is the process of them making a video rather than what the outcome is. I personally enjoy all of their recent videos, including what i called "extremely lazy ones", the face swap and the storytime with louise, hell, i even liked the last isg, but that doesn't mean they putted effort into them.

For dinof, 4 out of 8 videos he putted out this year are filler contents, i admit that diss track and the sketches took more effort to make, but 4 out of 8 tho. (Dan memes, as Catallena said, people literally gave him all the things that he needed so it doesn't count at all.) Now i don't know what other youtubers do, i don't care, but compare to prime time Dan, 4 out of 8 is, really damn shameful.

And for AP, maybe i was bit harsh, to dismiss all the effort he putted into tags and challenges... oops wait, i wasn't. And his collabs are even lazier, i don't care if deppy are a duo or not, at least Dan didn't drag Phil into every other videos to Phan it out and get cheap likes, Phil knows he can have Dan AND make good videos he just wouldn't. For other collabs, they require very little effort to make, if you compare Caspar's collab video with Phil's, you will see that even in the same setting, Caspar, whether the outcome is good enough or not, at least he tried to put more stuff into his videos. The pj collab was rushed, and i don't think filming a face bank talk and do voiceover was such hard work. The hazel collab was literally as same as a buzzfeed video so...

I don't compare them to other youtubers, because i think there are no point in comparing them to those they don't even think worthy the comparison, but even compare to themselves, their 2013-2014 selves, the disparity is very obvious. They are maybe in the middle ground of youtube now but they shouldn't be, they should be on the top, if they think they are on the top (dan clearly thinks so) and if the phandom think they are on top. If they use to be on the top and now they are no longer on the top, isn't that just proof my point of "the quality is dropping"?

Btw I'm a one year old trash so i'd like to think that i don't have much nostalgia effect when i give them critiques.

Then the well-liked factor, as Catallena said, phandom are giving them a lot of unconditional loves, they basically like whatever deppy do because deppy do them, and i feel that too sometimes, so it's very very subjective. And for non phandoms, it's hard to know whether someone is giving an honest review of their videos because of the phandom. So it's really difficult to know whether deppy are really well liked for general audiences or not. (and sometimes we hear negative opinions from time to time, like the PULL thread, like the sunday times article, like the negative reviews on their tour, to proof that their content are not so well liked by everyone, especially they are having difficulty in crossing the age gap.)

And the third one, by significance i mean like real significance, like Citizen kane or The godfather, not your personal significance.

Anyway, i'm do admit i tend to be particularity harsh on the people i like, i have higher expectations for , i want 100 years from now, people will looking back at the youtube history and see deppy as pioneering and monumental, and not to be forgotten in time. (Okay this sounds really heavy and unhealthy im gonna go bye)

[DryCereal]

Something just caught my eye on the re-watch...



The absolute fuck is that visible over Dan's shoulder?!

Double reflection? Freaky Mask? Face pillow? Blow up Zayn doll?

And the third one, by significance i mean like real significance, like Citizen kane or The godfather, not your personal significance.

Butting in to play devil's advocate: That right there? That's an OPINION. People decide individually if something is worthy of their attention. And that's just as "real" as any other opinion.

[akui]

Something just caught my eye on the re-watch...



The absolute fuck is that visible over Dan's shoulder?!

Double reflection? Freaky Mask? Face pillow? Blow up Zayn doll?

And the third one, by significance i mean like real significance, like Citizen kane or The godfather, not your personal significance.

Butting in to play devil's advocate: That right there? That's an OPINION. People decide individually if something is worthy of their attention. And that's just as "real" as any other opinion.

those are just dirty laundry isn't it?

Second question, not really. Citizen Kane and the godfather both revolutionised the film industry, citizen kane showed the world what a director can make a movie look and sound like, and the godfather reinvented the gangster movie genre. Now they are important templates that been told to young filmmakers in school and have undeniable impact on our culture. You might not like them, but you cannot deny their significance. That's a fact.